7 ms·

It's interesting how HN is valley-centric ;) BTW such laws are quite common in EU, for example in Poland you are required to give 100cm of clearance, so about 3

by f055 12y ago

It's interesting how HN is valley-centric ;) BTW such laws are quite common in EU, for example in Poland you are required to give 100cm of clearance, so about 3.28 feet.

bowlofpetunias 12y ago
I don't think the Netherlands has any such law, and if we do no one cares. There's basically one simple law that the US should copy: if you hit a weaker road user, be it a cyclist, pedestrian or anything else, with your car, you are completely liable unless there's proven utterly reckless behavior by the other party.
- twoodfin 12y ago
  What's the difference between merely reckless and "utterly" reckless?
- jackmaney 12y ago
  That's one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. Full stop. Not exaggerating in the slightest. Pedestrians and cyclists are perfectly capable of breaking laws and are most certainly capable of being at fault in an accident with a motorist.
  - st0p 12y ago
    It works pretty well though. Giving 1 meter of clearance is just not possible in the very tight old city centers of the Netherlands, which also have a lot of biking traffic.
    - jackmaney 12y ago
      Note to self: never go to the Netherlands.
      - chiph 12y ago
        You really should. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised. The skill level of European drivers is far above that of American drivers, and because of laws like the one mentioned, they're much more respectful of riders and walkers.
      - st0p 12y ago
        Why not? As a tourist in Holland, there is absolutely no reason to drive a car. If you go to Amsterdam, there are a lot of interesting cities within 45 minutes by train. Even Groningen or Maastricht are within less than 3 hours by train (which is too far to do fore one day, but if you book a hotel over there for 1 or 2 nights is perfectly feasible) Traffic in downtown LA, NYC or even Rome is worse than Amsterdam, and I'm really glad that I never had to drive in places like Vietnam or Cambodia. Sure, driving in Amsterdam requires you to pay attention but it isn't that bad.
  - asgeir 12y ago
    I think that the reasoning is that since cars are heavy and cyclists and pedestrians are squishy the one with more capability to cause harm is considered responsible. Unless it is suicide by car or something like that.
  - akamaka 12y ago
    I disagree. I frequently hear people complaining about cyclists breaking rules, but when Toronto did a major study of accidents between cars and bikes, it was found that cyclists are at fault in less than 10% of accidents. Compelling drivers to be more careful would be an effective way to reduce accidents. http://www.sharetheroad.ca/what-are-the-dangers-in-terms-of-cycling-safety--p128277 http://www.sharetheroad.ca/what-are-the-dangers-in-terms-of-...
  - anigbrowl 12y ago
    Traffic mortality in the Netherlands is about 60% of that in the US, despite NL being one of the most densely populated countries in the world. So perhaps they are on to something. It's also somewhat safer per unit of distance traveled. http://www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheets/UK/FS_International_perspective.pdf http://www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheets/UK/FS_International_pe...
    - jackmaney 12y ago
      And you can have it, thank you very much. I'll be over here in the US.
      - anigbrowl 12y ago
        This seems a pretty irrational response. Although I live in the US now (as well as having lived in in NL before) lowering traffic mortality seems like a Good Thing given the economic costs to society resulting from avoidable deaths. You'll also be missing out on higher speed limits (it's perfectly legal to drive at 80mph on the Dutch equivalent of freeways), much nicer roads, plus if you do get a speeding ticket it's proportional to the degree to which you exceed the speed limit. Well, enjoy your xenophobia!
        jackmaney 12y ago
        Obvious troll is obvious.
        anigbrowl 12y ago
        I'm not trolling you, and for that matter I don't even own a bicycle. Driving in the Netherlands is simply not the horrid experience you seem to imagine it must be.
- smutticus 12y ago
  You can't compare the NL to anywhere in the USA WRT bicycles. Completely different environment.
- lsaferite 12y ago
  I think a change like this would best be accompanied with a mandatory dash cam for passenger cars as well.

by f055 12y ago

It's interesting how HN is valley-centric ;) BTW such laws are quite common in EU, for example in Poland you are required to give 100cm of clearance, so about 3.28 feet.

bowlofpetunias 12y ago

I don't think the Netherlands has any such law, and if we do no one cares. There's basically one simple law that the US should copy: if you hit a weaker road user, be it a cyclist, pedestrian or anything else, with your car, you are completely liable unless there's proven utterly reckless behavior by the other party.

twoodfin 12y ago
What's the difference between merely reckless and "utterly" reckless?
jackmaney 12y ago
That's one of the worst ideas I've ever heard. Full stop. Not exaggerating in the slightest. Pedestrians and cyclists are perfectly capable of breaking laws and are most certainly capable of being at fault in an accident with a motorist.
- st0p 12y ago
  It works pretty well though. Giving 1 meter of clearance is just not possible in the very tight old city centers of the Netherlands, which also have a lot of biking traffic.
  - jackmaney 12y ago
    Note to self: never go to the Netherlands.
    - chiph 12y ago
      You really should. I think you'd be pleasantly surprised. The skill level of European drivers is far above that of American drivers, and because of laws like the one mentioned, they're much more respectful of riders and walkers.
    - st0p 12y ago
      Why not? As a tourist in Holland, there is absolutely no reason to drive a car. If you go to Amsterdam, there are a lot of interesting cities within 45 minutes by train. Even Groningen or Maastricht are within less than 3 hours by train (which is too far to do fore one day, but if you book a hotel over there for 1 or 2 nights is perfectly feasible) Traffic in downtown LA, NYC or even Rome is worse than Amsterdam, and I'm really glad that I never had to drive in places like Vietnam or Cambodia. Sure, driving in Amsterdam requires you to pay attention but it isn't that bad.
- asgeir 12y ago
  I think that the reasoning is that since cars are heavy and cyclists and pedestrians are squishy the one with more capability to cause harm is considered responsible. Unless it is suicide by car or something like that.
- akamaka 12y ago
  I disagree. I frequently hear people complaining about cyclists breaking rules, but when Toronto did a major study of accidents between cars and bikes, it was found that cyclists are at fault in less than 10% of accidents. Compelling drivers to be more careful would be an effective way to reduce accidents. http://www.sharetheroad.ca/what-are-the-dangers-in-terms-of-cycling-safety--p128277 http://www.sharetheroad.ca/what-are-the-dangers-in-terms-of-...
- anigbrowl 12y ago
  Traffic mortality in the Netherlands is about 60% of that in the US, despite NL being one of the most densely populated countries in the world. So perhaps they are on to something. It's also somewhat safer per unit of distance traveled. http://www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheets/UK/FS_International_perspective.pdf http://www.swov.nl/rapport/Factsheets/UK/FS_International_pe...
  - jackmaney 12y ago
    And you can have it, thank you very much. I'll be over here in the US.
    - anigbrowl 12y ago
      This seems a pretty irrational response. Although I live in the US now (as well as having lived in in NL before) lowering traffic mortality seems like a Good Thing given the economic costs to society resulting from avoidable deaths. You'll also be missing out on higher speed limits (it's perfectly legal to drive at 80mph on the Dutch equivalent of freeways), much nicer roads, plus if you do get a speeding ticket it's proportional to the degree to which you exceed the speed limit. Well, enjoy your xenophobia!
      - jackmaney 12y ago
        Obvious troll is obvious.
        anigbrowl 12y ago
        I'm not trolling you, and for that matter I don't even own a bicycle. Driving in the Netherlands is simply not the horrid experience you seem to imagine it must be.
smutticus 12y ago
You can't compare the NL to anywhere in the USA WRT bicycles. Completely different environment.
lsaferite 12y ago
I think a change like this would best be accompanied with a mandatory dash cam for passenger cars as well.