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True. But they can replace any program on any iPhone with an NSA/Justice system version, and give the replacement access to any keys stored on the iPhone. Ther

by waps 12y ago

True. But they can replace any program on any iPhone with an NSA/Justice system version, and give the replacement access to any keys stored on the iPhone. There can never be any security on a closed system where a central party has all the control. That means apple's system is a lost cause for user security.

threeseed 12y ago
Apple can silently slipstream applications onto a users iPhone ? That would means dozens of employees would be involved in a conspiracy with the US government. And over all the years none of them has leaked anything ? Sounds far fetched. Also better not use a phone. Because Android and Windows Phone would have the same problem.
- JetSpiegel 12y ago
  They can issue an "update" for the system that adds that functionality, they have the trusted keys to sign apps.
- maljx 12y ago
  Apple can remotely delete apps on iPhones. They've used it to delete apps that were removed from the app store. Apple can force your phone to download the latest U2 album. Upgrading your apps silently is probably not outside their control if they wanted to.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    iPhones by default are set to automatically download purchased content from the iTunes Store. It's a feature so purchases made on one device automatically appear on others. All Apple did was "buy" the U2 for everyone. Nothing magical about it. To bring that up in the context of iMessage security shows either ignorance or stupidity. And remote deleting is quite a bit different to silently upgrading apps for the purpose of spying.
    - waps 12y ago
      So when do we find out the NSA has made it's own little "purchase" for everyone ?
  - nnnnni 12y ago
    My phone certain did not automatically download Songs of Innocence. For those users whose phones DID automatically download it, they must have enabled the "automatically add purchased content to this phone" feature. According to my research, Apple has NEVER used the "kill switch", unlike Google: 'Google also possesses a remote "kill switch" for Android apps, but unlike Apple, it has made use of the feature before. In 2010 the Android security team deleted two apps created by a security researcher after they "misrepresented their purpose in order to encourage user downloads." Its kill switch is referred to by the company as the "Remote Application Removal Feature.' [1] [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/brazil-orders-apple-to-use-iphone-app-kill-switch-2014-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/brazil-orders-apple-to-use-ip...
    - tacotime 12y ago
      The point is they have the capability and because of your government's secret court system the general public very well may never find out whether or not the capability has been taken advantage of. I can guarantee you that the "automatically add purchased content to this phone" check box does absolutely nothing to protect your phone from downloading and integrating data from Apple silently if they should choose to target you. And you would likely never know if they choose to target you.
- bigiain 12y ago
  "Hey, where'd this U2 album come from???" Of course Apple can "silently slipstream applications onto a user's iPhone". Whether they'd risk getting caught doing it (even for non-all-powerful law enforcement agencies) without a court order or for anything less indefensable than a kiddie porn investigation is less clear. (And whether the NSA would even need Apples help to do it themselves is questionable - I suspect whoever owns the baseband has as much access as you'd even need, so now you're relying on AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/TMobile to put protecting your privacy above keeping the corporation on-side with powerful government agencies...)

by waps 12y ago

threeseed 12y ago

Apple can silently slipstream applications onto a users iPhone ? That would means dozens of employees would be involved in a conspiracy with the US government. And over all the years none of them has leaked anything ? Sounds far fetched. Also better not use a phone. Because Android and Windows Phone would have the same problem.

JetSpiegel 12y ago
They can issue an "update" for the system that adds that functionality, they have the trusted keys to sign apps.
maljx 12y ago
Apple can remotely delete apps on iPhones. They've used it to delete apps that were removed from the app store. Apple can force your phone to download the latest U2 album. Upgrading your apps silently is probably not outside their control if they wanted to.
- threeseed 12y ago
  iPhones by default are set to automatically download purchased content from the iTunes Store. It's a feature so purchases made on one device automatically appear on others. All Apple did was "buy" the U2 for everyone. Nothing magical about it. To bring that up in the context of iMessage security shows either ignorance or stupidity. And remote deleting is quite a bit different to silently upgrading apps for the purpose of spying.
  - waps 12y ago
    So when do we find out the NSA has made it's own little "purchase" for everyone ?
- nnnnni 12y ago
  My phone certain did not automatically download Songs of Innocence. For those users whose phones DID automatically download it, they must have enabled the "automatically add purchased content to this phone" feature. According to my research, Apple has NEVER used the "kill switch", unlike Google: 'Google also possesses a remote "kill switch" for Android apps, but unlike Apple, it has made use of the feature before. In 2010 the Android security team deleted two apps created by a security researcher after they "misrepresented their purpose in order to encourage user downloads." Its kill switch is referred to by the company as the "Remote Application Removal Feature.' [1] [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/brazil-orders-apple-to-use-iphone-app-kill-switch-2014-8 http://www.businessinsider.com/brazil-orders-apple-to-use-ip...
  - tacotime 12y ago
    The point is they have the capability and because of your government's secret court system the general public very well may never find out whether or not the capability has been taken advantage of. I can guarantee you that the "automatically add purchased content to this phone" check box does absolutely nothing to protect your phone from downloading and integrating data from Apple silently if they should choose to target you. And you would likely never know if they choose to target you.
bigiain 12y ago
"Hey, where'd this U2 album come from???" Of course Apple can "silently slipstream applications onto a user's iPhone". Whether they'd risk getting caught doing it (even for non-all-powerful law enforcement agencies) without a court order or for anything less indefensable than a kiddie porn investigation is less clear. (And whether the NSA would even need Apples help to do it themselves is questionable - I suspect whoever owns the baseband has as much access as you'd even need, so now you're relying on AT&T/Comcast/Verizon/TMobile to put protecting your privacy above keeping the corporation on-side with powerful government agencies...)