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"Our business is not based on having information about you. You’re not our product. Our product are these, and this watch, and Macs and so forth. And so we run

"Our business is not based on having information about you. You’re not our product. Our product are these, and this watch, and Macs and so forth. And so we run a very different company. I think everyone has to ask, how do companies make their money? Follow the money. And if they’re making money mainly by collecting gobs of personal data, I think you have a right to be worried. And you should really understand what’s happening to that data. And companies I think should be very transparent about it." Honestly, I am starting to see the wisdom behind consumers choosing the companies with these kinds of business models. Its not that I dont trust the companies -- I guess its that I accept that governments and laws transcend companies and their explicit arrangements with their consumers.

camillomiller 12y ago
For as much as you may criticize Apple for many things, you can't really say they are not sincere when they say something like this. A company has to make profits, and profits come from a well executed business plan. Apple's business plan is to sell hardware and create software and platforms that drive hardware sales. Collecting data for reasons that are not related to the functioning of a service makes no sense for the bottom line. Google makes profit selling ads crafted on people's data and a new controlled user accessing the Internet is entering its realm. That is good for the bottom line. It may be an oversimplification, but I guess that you can say a lot and get back to this. Anything that has to do with NSA mass surveillance, though, shouldn't be transposed on this discourse. Not Tim Cook, nor Larry Page, nor any other CEO, individually and in their function, can possibly know everything about their company. Fifth columns, NSA rats, unconstitutional secret requests of information... They are American citizens, running American organizations they have to comply to the rules or they may compromise billions of shareholders dollars. But are they lying to us right now? I think they are not, because it will hurt their bottom lines more than ever. Is Google in a weaker position than Apple because of the very nature of its business model based on data collection? Absolutely yes. The problem is ingrained with the system though and the only solution is to extirpate the cancer called NSA. I doubt it will happen anytime soon, though. We all love our gadgets and services too much, and we don't really have time to wrap our brain around such big problems for nerds.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
foolrush 12y ago
Applications and software? Songs? Television? Movies? Health? Seems to be a bit disingenuous to suggest that they aren't making any money from your habits and data.
- arrrg 12y ago
  No, it doesn’t, not really. Look at where their money is coming from. You mentioned health. Apple has no plans at all to make money with that. It’s just an API that makes devices more useful for users. Think critically about this, but please do it in a honest way.
  - hahainternet 12y ago
    > You mentioned health. Apple has no plans at all to make money with that. It’s just an API that makes devices more useful for users. So there's no 'Made For Iphone' program?
    - arrrg 12y ago
      That seems quite unlikely, given how the API is structured (and how that market currently operates; please inform yourself before making claims). Even if there were such a program for health hardware I’m not sure how it follows that Apple will want to sell user data … that’s just completely illogical.
  - foolrush 12y ago
    Rubbish[1]. The idea that Apple is in the market to sell these things, and specifically, to sell more, isn't a leap of neurological fortitude. To suggest that Apple isn't analysing your purchasing to augment sales in some capacity is akin to clinging to the fallacy that they avoid market research[2]. There is no myth of constancy here; Apple is not strictly a hardware vendor any longer. However it is spun, it would seem entirely plausible that they leverage past purchases and other such metrics of data against future purchases. I apologize for not abiding by your definition of thinking “critically” in an “honest” way. [1] http://9to5mac.com/2014/08/21/apple-talked-healthkit-with-insurance-companies-unitedhealth-and-humana/ http://9to5mac.com/2014/08/21/apple-talked-healthkit-with-in... [2] Apple vs. Samsung debunked this myth entirely.
yen223 12y ago
Of course, there's nothing stopping Apple from selling both the product and the user...
- Someone 12y ago
  They are publicly traded, so they publish their financials. Something would show up there. Even if they cook their books, something would show up in somebody else's books. If you are paranoid, you may think of the options "Sell the product and give away the user" and "Everyone is in on this". I think those are far-fetched.
- danieldk 12y ago
  But that reduces the value of the product. I also don't think it is in Apple's DNA to do that. My concern is more that, given how bad they generally are at providing robust cloud applications [1], that their security is equally bad. [1] iTunes Match would always refuse to play some songs from my collection. Even when a stopped using an iPhone last december, iMessages would often come in in non-chronological order and sometimes not at all, etc.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
josefresco 12y ago
"Our business is not based on having information about you." That would be awesome if that was true, but Apple knows a lot about all of us, including our credit card numbers (iTunes/Appple Pay), your music, movie and media purchases, contacts, files, photos ... the list goes on. Cook can draw the line where he think it's appropriate, but for others that line is much, much different. Apple is simply on a spectrum of companies that store personal information about you. They aren't the worst, but they certainly aren't the best either.

camillomiller 12y ago

For as much as you may criticize Apple for many things, you can't really say they are not sincere when they say something like this. A company has to make profits, and profits come from a well executed business plan. Apple's business plan is to sell hardware and create software and platforms that drive hardware sales. Collecting data for reasons that are not related to the functioning of a service makes no sense for the bottom line. Google makes profit selling ads crafted on people's data and a new controlled user accessing the Internet is entering its realm. That is good for the bottom line. It may be an oversimplification, but I guess that you can say a lot and get back to this. Anything that has to do with NSA mass surveillance, though, shouldn't be transposed on this discourse. Not Tim Cook, nor Larry Page, nor any other CEO, individually and in their function, can possibly know everything about their company. Fifth columns, NSA rats, unconstitutional secret requests of information... They are American citizens, running American organizations they have to comply to the rules or they may compromise billions of shareholders dollars. But are they lying to us right now? I think they are not, because it will hurt their bottom lines more than ever. Is Google in a weaker position than Apple because of the very nature of its business model based on data collection? Absolutely yes. The problem is ingrained with the system though and the only solution is to extirpate the cancer called NSA. I doubt it will happen anytime soon, though. We all love our gadgets and services too much, and we don't really have time to wrap our brain around such big problems for nerds.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

foolrush 12y ago

Applications and software? Songs? Television? Movies? Health? Seems to be a bit disingenuous to suggest that they aren't making any money from your habits and data.

arrrg 12y ago
No, it doesn’t, not really. Look at where their money is coming from. You mentioned health. Apple has no plans at all to make money with that. It’s just an API that makes devices more useful for users. Think critically about this, but please do it in a honest way.
- hahainternet 12y ago
  > You mentioned health. Apple has no plans at all to make money with that. It’s just an API that makes devices more useful for users. So there's no 'Made For Iphone' program?
  - arrrg 12y ago
    That seems quite unlikely, given how the API is structured (and how that market currently operates; please inform yourself before making claims). Even if there were such a program for health hardware I’m not sure how it follows that Apple will want to sell user data … that’s just completely illogical.
- foolrush 12y ago
  Rubbish[1]. The idea that Apple is in the market to sell these things, and specifically, to sell more, isn't a leap of neurological fortitude. To suggest that Apple isn't analysing your purchasing to augment sales in some capacity is akin to clinging to the fallacy that they avoid market research[2]. There is no myth of constancy here; Apple is not strictly a hardware vendor any longer. However it is spun, it would seem entirely plausible that they leverage past purchases and other such metrics of data against future purchases. I apologize for not abiding by your definition of thinking “critically” in an “honest” way. [1] http://9to5mac.com/2014/08/21/apple-talked-healthkit-with-insurance-companies-unitedhealth-and-humana/ http://9to5mac.com/2014/08/21/apple-talked-healthkit-with-in... [2] Apple vs. Samsung debunked this myth entirely.

yen223 12y ago

Of course, there's nothing stopping Apple from selling both the product and the user...

Someone 12y ago
They are publicly traded, so they publish their financials. Something would show up there. Even if they cook their books, something would show up in somebody else's books. If you are paranoid, you may think of the options "Sell the product and give away the user" and "Everyone is in on this". I think those are far-fetched.
danieldk 12y ago
But that reduces the value of the product. I also don't think it is in Apple's DNA to do that. My concern is more that, given how bad they generally are at providing robust cloud applications [1], that their security is equally bad. [1] iTunes Match would always refuse to play some songs from my collection. Even when a stopped using an iPhone last december, iMessages would often come in in non-chronological order and sometimes not at all, etc.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

josefresco 12y ago

"Our business is not based on having information about you." That would be awesome if that was true, but Apple knows a lot about all of us, including our credit card numbers (iTunes/Appple Pay), your music, movie and media purchases, contacts, files, photos ... the list goes on. Cook can draw the line where he think it's appropriate, but for others that line is much, much different. Apple is simply on a spectrum of companies that store personal information about you. They aren't the worst, but they certainly aren't the best either.