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Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't YC for the Ivy League class type? The "I dropped out cause I am smart" type? The "I wrote a book on _____" type? "I worked a

Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't YC for the Ivy League class type? The "I dropped out cause I am smart" type? The "I wrote a book on _____" type? "I worked at Google or Facebook" type? What about the regular type that doesn't have much to show, but wants to do great things? Basically, I feel like the YC application is a pissing match of who can piss the farthest shown on paper not outside. haha :) I have realized I don't fit the YC type.. so I won't apply.

amirmc 12y ago
What gives you this impression? From what I can tell (from the outside) YC is a pretty diverse crowd and I believe PG once said that academic background doesn't much matter. Grit (aka resilience, determination, relentlessness, etc) is more important. In fact, there's nothing in the application form that even asks about education (there used to be but maybe it moved to the additional founder info - i.e it doesn't seem important at all).
- rmena123 12y ago
  I am not just talking about education. Trust me, look up the founders, its the same type. If I walked into a YC dinner I would probably stand out, not for lack of education, but something would not be mixed up right.
  - amirmc 12y ago
    If you're ruling yourself out before you've even begun, then I find it difficult to have any sympathy. If the 'type' you're referring to is 'young, white male' then there are many aspects of life where you might be in the minority (I say that as someone who fails to tick two of those boxes). YC could do more to highlight its existing diversity but I'm not simply going to take your word for it (you still haven't explained what you mean).
  - rattray 12y ago
    Lack of confidence would certainly make someone stick out like a sore thumb =)
- Qworg 12y ago
  I think this impression is pervasive (at least amongst my friends). It would be great to highlight founders who have gotten into YC who don't "fit the mold" so to speak. Most, if not all, of the "check out my winning YC application" posts have multiple Ivy League/Stanford founders, advantageous childhoods, etc. Add to that the same posts have "multiple people who are YC alums read, edited, and/or vetted our application" and you can see how that impression can spread.
  - larrys 12y ago
    "It would be great to highlight founders who have gotten into YC who don't "fit the mold" so to speak. " My personal feeling (per my other comment below) is that weeding out people that are easily scared off (or need super special encouragement) might be a good thing and not a bad thing. Not having a halo doesn't mean "don't bother to even try" or "non starter". It just means work harder and figure out an angle that makes you unique and sell yourself. It can actually be an advantage rather than someone who thinks they can just phone it in. For the record this was the attitude that got me into an Ivy League business school with no family connections, no family money and what had to be the lowest SAT scores in the class as well as my high school telling me not to even bother applying that "I wasn't the right material for that school".
  - nostrademons 12y ago
    I think one of the critical skills for a startup founder is to ignore the general impression and find out yourself what the actual reality is. Another critical skill is the ability, when somebody else is confused by their general preconceptions, to point out why your special case is different and why they should abandon their general theories for the specific opportunity in front of them. YC might very well do the highlighting you mention - it's to their advantage to draw as diverse an applicant pool as possible. However, in some ways this misses the point. It doesn't disqualify you if you didn't get into Stanford, Google, the Ivy League, etc. It does disqualify you if you think this is important enough to disqualify you.
    - waterlesscloud 12y ago
      A critical skill for a startup incubator is reaching all the people who could succeed and make them a ton of money. That includes openly and directly addressing mis-impressions the talent pool may have of who the incubator is looking for.
paul 12y ago
You are wrong :) YC founders come from everywhere.
- rmena123 12y ago
  I don't care to talk about race or gender, if you are good you are good, but me being American/Mexican "Hispanic" does YC have any?
  - paul 12y ago
    I'm sure we do, but honestly I don't know how to tell if someone is Mexican, or if they just have a Hispanic name.
    - rmena123 12y ago
      I hope so cause I keep looking haha. I have jet black hair, tanned skin, know very little Spanish, but people still approach me speaking Spanish. :)
  - alliejanoch 12y ago
    I have a friend who is a YC alum and he is definitely hispanic. Not going to call him out, and of course that is only one person, but I don't feel that being a minority is going to hurt you. YC has made a lot of effort to address diversity: http://blog.ycombinator.com/diversity-and-startups http://blog.ycombinator.com/diversity-and-startups
  - outericky 12y ago
    We had several Hispanic/Latino founders in our batch. Were they specifically of Mexican descent. No idea. Doesn't matter.
sama 12y ago
no, definitely not. we look for something impressive you've done or built, but that's much more important than where you went to school.
- rmena123 12y ago
  I agree somewhat, I guess its just the impression many have.
  - sama 12y ago
    if people have that impression, i think they looking for an excuse and not looking at data.
    - quaunaut 12y ago
      Is there somewhere this data is available, raw? Or would it be possible to get access to it somehow?
    - larrys 12y ago
      I don't see it as a "look at the data" thing I see it as a human behavior thing. I think it's actually a decent barrier which may correctly hold back people who are easily scared off (or who read situations wrong) at what appears to be a challenge that they don't or aren't able to face. In that case it's probably a good thing, not a bad thing. [1] The "take your jack and shove it" parable applies here: http://williamhorberg.typepad.com/william_horberg/2010/05/the-jack-story.html http://williamhorberg.typepad.com/william_horberg/2010/05/th... From my personal experience I've had cases where people have spammed me and I've ended up selling them things. (In one case in particular, a $160,000 sale...) [1] In old school business these people were sometimes called "triflers". In ads people selling things would put in "no triflers" or "serious inquiries only" or "if you don't know what a junket is don't bother to even call". A person with (for lack of a better way to put it) "balls" would not be deterred by that at all.
    - rmena123 12y ago
      Maybe, by no means am I referring to my past rejections, I know I lacked a team or maybe project idea itself. But look around the room next meetup, its lacking something.
btrautsc 12y ago
I commented below, but to answer your question: No. Our founders all graduated from a state school (in the southeast). We did have an early product in the wild and we had a few strong customer stories. I think our "key attribute" was probably willingness to hustle.
Ixiaus 12y ago
Your generalizations don't hold IMHO. What the accelerators I've been through select for is generally a tenacious personality, strength of the team, and something worth showing as a project or previous experience.
ajiang 12y ago
Like many others that have commented, all of our founders graduated from non-Ivys, have not worked at Google or Facebook, and have definitely not written anything you'd pay for. YC is not for regular people that just want to do great things, but for those that are actually working hard to do them. Traction is important, showing that you have the ability to produce great results is equally important. However, in the absence of traction or an actual product, graduating from an Ivy with a challenging major, writing a book, working at Google / Facebook are suitable proxies, as they are in themselves challenging achievements that not many can claim.
impendia 12y ago
> What about the regular type that doesn't have much to show, but wants to do great things? People who want to do great things, and who have the right combination of talent and drive to actually do them, have usually done great things already. Perhaps not in the same sphere, and perhaps not as great as they aim in the future, but still great. If you don't have much to show, why should you expect to be regarded favorably in any competitive endeavor? Evaluating people based on what they have demonstrated is by far the fairest method, and I can't really imagine what you would propose to replace it with. If you don't have much to show now, you have the opportunity to see to it that you will in a few months. Just because some doors are closed to you now doesn't mean they will be forever. Good luck to you!
- enraged_camel 12y ago
  >> Evaluating people based on what they have demonstrated is by far the fairest method, and I can't really imagine what you would propose to replace it with. Sounds like a great way to discriminate against those who are brilliant but have not been given the opportunity (through a certain type of upbringing, e.g. race, gender, income, nationality, etc.) to demonstrate it. I don't have a solution, but I do think that by relying too much on someone's track record, it's easy to miss other types of people who can be equally successful given the chance.
  - _sentient 12y ago
    I understand that everyone starts from a different place, and degrees of privilege certainly vary. However, the ability to create success in the face of failure is a core property of most successful entrepreneurs. People who stand around waiting for someone to "give them a chance" are rarely the ones who materially impact the world.
    - Iftheshoefits 12y ago
      Edit: lest somebody take the below comment negatively, I'd submit that one doesn't have much to lose by simply applying to YC, so I'm not sure I understand why there'd be any hesitation even by people who are very unlikely to get in. The evidence by an overwhelming margin indicates that being born into privilege is one of the most significant indicators of future success. In fact, in the world of entrepreneurs, "being given a chance" is hardly necessary for the overwhelming majority of success cases, because by accident of their birth they had such a head start. In fact, most people who "materially impact the world", by a big, big, big margin, were people who were born into privilege. So I don't think that it's a negative indicator if somebody is particularly skeptical of their chances of getting accepted by YC for not fitting into a certain mold. In fact, it strikes me as being incredibly rational. That being said, if one doesn't try, one will never know for sure. That doesn't mean one should apply, either, and expect anything if one isn't already wealthy or connected.
pbreit 12y ago
No, you definitely do not fit. But you have no idea why.
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  Comments like this one make me have no desire to even attempt to "fit".
  - pbreit 12y ago
    Then you probably don't fit either. And it's really not about trying to fit. It's about having good ideas, executing well, being resourceful, being persuasive, etc. I think you're missing the point if you think it's about "fitting in".
    - waterlesscloud 12y ago
      I don't fit, which is fine. But you missed my point, which I'll make explicit. "But you have no idea why" is condescending and dismissive. It betrays an arrogance that's very off-putting.
bryanh 12y ago
Very incorrect. The YC founders I know are have a degree from none-Ivy league schools, didn't work at Google/Facebook and didn't write a book.
dropit_sphere 12y ago
I think you're placing too much importance on "getting in" to YC. YC spots may be a limited commodity, but startups aren't. It's true that YC provides a great network, a media boost, and money, but...those are neither necessary nor sufficient for success. Save your money, make a product, get people to pay you for it. When they say "No," ask them why not. That's it. A lot of work. It probably won't make you famous. If it's fame you want, start a Youtube channel.
ChrisNorstrom 12y ago
What a sad, self defeatist attitude. You just knocked yourself down before anyone else did. It seems you're afraid of trying because you're afraid of failure. You're the type of person that probably won't get accepted. Because if this is your attitude now, who knows what your mood's going to be like when your startup goes through turbulence. You're searching for a reason not to apply. To keep failure at bay. To keep pain from the ego.
- rmena123 12y ago
  I'm the type of person that doesn't care to be accepted and rather put energy into my own startup. I will be successful regardless, it's not saying I am afraid to fail. Failure and success have nothing to do with being accepted or rejected from YC. I think YC would be great and what they do is great, my hats off to the whole place, but people like you talk like YC is the win all.
  - ChrisNorstrom 12y ago
    "people like you talk like YC is the win all" Hey, you're the one that didn't want to apply because you didn't think you'd fit in due to your preconceived notions about who gets accepted.
    - rmena123 12y ago
      Like I said above... Look up the majority of founders and they all fall into a category type. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it's a type. Yea I did say that, but you are talking about success and failure like that has anything to do with applying or not. If you think I wont have success because I don't apply I feel bad for that thinking.
      - skj 12y ago
        He's not saying that not applying causes not succeeding, but that the reasons you give for not applying cause not succeeding. That is, correlation, not causation.
scobar 12y ago
I'll reiterate something YC partners have said. If you're working on a startup, even if you don't apply, completing the application is a great way to clarify your idea and focus on what's important moving forward. If you don't have much to show yet, don't sweat it. Just get started, and work on your ideas with whatever time you can afford. Some applicants will have accomplished more, but some may have started with huge disadvantages and overcame far more adversity to achieve a much less impressive track record. Regardless of not being the type that seemingly has an advantage, if you're going to build a successful startup, then go build it. I just returned from meeting with the CEO of the only YC company based in my state. He's an awesome guy, and I'm very grateful he took the time to meet with me and offer his advice. Throughout the meeting, it seemed like he had the impression that I had no idea how much work I had ahead of me and how hard it actually is to get into YC. Being underestimated like that is so thrilling; I love it! It means he'll be that much more impressed when I accomplish what I plan to do whether I get into YC or not.
rmena123 12y ago
I am not saying selecting a type of group of people is wrong, but YC does have a type they only choose. If you disagree look up any founder and they will fall into a category type. Ask yourself... How many woman accepted and not in recent years. How many Mexicans? How many african americans? How many regular guys that just had a prototype but no background to back it up. It's ok, I just don't know why YC acts like they are so diverse when clearly they aren't.

amirmc 12y ago

What gives you this impression? From what I can tell (from the outside) YC is a pretty diverse crowd and I believe PG once said that academic background doesn't much matter. Grit (aka resilience, determination, relentlessness, etc) is more important. In fact, there's nothing in the application form that even asks about education (there used to be but maybe it moved to the additional founder info - i.e it doesn't seem important at all).

rmena123 12y ago
I am not just talking about education. Trust me, look up the founders, its the same type. If I walked into a YC dinner I would probably stand out, not for lack of education, but something would not be mixed up right.
- amirmc 12y ago
  If you're ruling yourself out before you've even begun, then I find it difficult to have any sympathy. If the 'type' you're referring to is 'young, white male' then there are many aspects of life where you might be in the minority (I say that as someone who fails to tick two of those boxes). YC could do more to highlight its existing diversity but I'm not simply going to take your word for it (you still haven't explained what you mean).
- rattray 12y ago
  Lack of confidence would certainly make someone stick out like a sore thumb =)
Qworg 12y ago
I think this impression is pervasive (at least amongst my friends). It would be great to highlight founders who have gotten into YC who don't "fit the mold" so to speak. Most, if not all, of the "check out my winning YC application" posts have multiple Ivy League/Stanford founders, advantageous childhoods, etc. Add to that the same posts have "multiple people who are YC alums read, edited, and/or vetted our application" and you can see how that impression can spread.
- larrys 12y ago
  "It would be great to highlight founders who have gotten into YC who don't "fit the mold" so to speak. " My personal feeling (per my other comment below) is that weeding out people that are easily scared off (or need super special encouragement) might be a good thing and not a bad thing. Not having a halo doesn't mean "don't bother to even try" or "non starter". It just means work harder and figure out an angle that makes you unique and sell yourself. It can actually be an advantage rather than someone who thinks they can just phone it in. For the record this was the attitude that got me into an Ivy League business school with no family connections, no family money and what had to be the lowest SAT scores in the class as well as my high school telling me not to even bother applying that "I wasn't the right material for that school".
- nostrademons 12y ago
  I think one of the critical skills for a startup founder is to ignore the general impression and find out yourself what the actual reality is. Another critical skill is the ability, when somebody else is confused by their general preconceptions, to point out why your special case is different and why they should abandon their general theories for the specific opportunity in front of them. YC might very well do the highlighting you mention - it's to their advantage to draw as diverse an applicant pool as possible. However, in some ways this misses the point. It doesn't disqualify you if you didn't get into Stanford, Google, the Ivy League, etc. It does disqualify you if you think this is important enough to disqualify you.
  - waterlesscloud 12y ago
    A critical skill for a startup incubator is reaching all the people who could succeed and make them a ton of money. That includes openly and directly addressing mis-impressions the talent pool may have of who the incubator is looking for.

paul 12y ago

You are wrong :) YC founders come from everywhere.

rmena123 12y ago
I don't care to talk about race or gender, if you are good you are good, but me being American/Mexican "Hispanic" does YC have any?
- paul 12y ago
  I'm sure we do, but honestly I don't know how to tell if someone is Mexican, or if they just have a Hispanic name.
  - rmena123 12y ago
    I hope so cause I keep looking haha. I have jet black hair, tanned skin, know very little Spanish, but people still approach me speaking Spanish. :)
- alliejanoch 12y ago
  I have a friend who is a YC alum and he is definitely hispanic. Not going to call him out, and of course that is only one person, but I don't feel that being a minority is going to hurt you. YC has made a lot of effort to address diversity: http://blog.ycombinator.com/diversity-and-startups http://blog.ycombinator.com/diversity-and-startups
- outericky 12y ago
  We had several Hispanic/Latino founders in our batch. Were they specifically of Mexican descent. No idea. Doesn't matter.

sama 12y ago

no, definitely not. we look for something impressive you've done or built, but that's much more important than where you went to school.

rmena123 12y ago
I agree somewhat, I guess its just the impression many have.
- sama 12y ago
  if people have that impression, i think they looking for an excuse and not looking at data.
  - quaunaut 12y ago
    Is there somewhere this data is available, raw? Or would it be possible to get access to it somehow?
  - larrys 12y ago
    I don't see it as a "look at the data" thing I see it as a human behavior thing. I think it's actually a decent barrier which may correctly hold back people who are easily scared off (or who read situations wrong) at what appears to be a challenge that they don't or aren't able to face. In that case it's probably a good thing, not a bad thing. [1] The "take your jack and shove it" parable applies here: http://williamhorberg.typepad.com/william_horberg/2010/05/the-jack-story.html http://williamhorberg.typepad.com/william_horberg/2010/05/th... From my personal experience I've had cases where people have spammed me and I've ended up selling them things. (In one case in particular, a $160,000 sale...) [1] In old school business these people were sometimes called "triflers". In ads people selling things would put in "no triflers" or "serious inquiries only" or "if you don't know what a junket is don't bother to even call". A person with (for lack of a better way to put it) "balls" would not be deterred by that at all.
  - rmena123 12y ago
    Maybe, by no means am I referring to my past rejections, I know I lacked a team or maybe project idea itself. But look around the room next meetup, its lacking something.

btrautsc 12y ago

I commented below, but to answer your question: No. Our founders all graduated from a state school (in the southeast). We did have an early product in the wild and we had a few strong customer stories. I think our "key attribute" was probably willingness to hustle.

Ixiaus 12y ago

Your generalizations don't hold IMHO. What the accelerators I've been through select for is generally a tenacious personality, strength of the team, and something worth showing as a project or previous experience.

ajiang 12y ago

Like many others that have commented, all of our founders graduated from non-Ivys, have not worked at Google or Facebook, and have definitely not written anything you'd pay for. YC is not for regular people that just want to do great things, but for those that are actually working hard to do them. Traction is important, showing that you have the ability to produce great results is equally important. However, in the absence of traction or an actual product, graduating from an Ivy with a challenging major, writing a book, working at Google / Facebook are suitable proxies, as they are in themselves challenging achievements that not many can claim.

impendia 12y ago

> What about the regular type that doesn't have much to show, but wants to do great things? People who want to do great things, and who have the right combination of talent and drive to actually do them, have usually done great things already. Perhaps not in the same sphere, and perhaps not as great as they aim in the future, but still great. If you don't have much to show, why should you expect to be regarded favorably in any competitive endeavor? Evaluating people based on what they have demonstrated is by far the fairest method, and I can't really imagine what you would propose to replace it with. If you don't have much to show now, you have the opportunity to see to it that you will in a few months. Just because some doors are closed to you now doesn't mean they will be forever. Good luck to you!

enraged_camel 12y ago
>> Evaluating people based on what they have demonstrated is by far the fairest method, and I can't really imagine what you would propose to replace it with. Sounds like a great way to discriminate against those who are brilliant but have not been given the opportunity (through a certain type of upbringing, e.g. race, gender, income, nationality, etc.) to demonstrate it. I don't have a solution, but I do think that by relying too much on someone's track record, it's easy to miss other types of people who can be equally successful given the chance.
- _sentient 12y ago
  I understand that everyone starts from a different place, and degrees of privilege certainly vary. However, the ability to create success in the face of failure is a core property of most successful entrepreneurs. People who stand around waiting for someone to "give them a chance" are rarely the ones who materially impact the world.
  - Iftheshoefits 12y ago
    Edit: lest somebody take the below comment negatively, I'd submit that one doesn't have much to lose by simply applying to YC, so I'm not sure I understand why there'd be any hesitation even by people who are very unlikely to get in. The evidence by an overwhelming margin indicates that being born into privilege is one of the most significant indicators of future success. In fact, in the world of entrepreneurs, "being given a chance" is hardly necessary for the overwhelming majority of success cases, because by accident of their birth they had such a head start. In fact, most people who "materially impact the world", by a big, big, big margin, were people who were born into privilege. So I don't think that it's a negative indicator if somebody is particularly skeptical of their chances of getting accepted by YC for not fitting into a certain mold. In fact, it strikes me as being incredibly rational. That being said, if one doesn't try, one will never know for sure. That doesn't mean one should apply, either, and expect anything if one isn't already wealthy or connected.

pbreit 12y ago

No, you definitely do not fit. But you have no idea why.

waterlesscloud 12y ago
Comments like this one make me have no desire to even attempt to "fit".
- pbreit 12y ago
  Then you probably don't fit either. And it's really not about trying to fit. It's about having good ideas, executing well, being resourceful, being persuasive, etc. I think you're missing the point if you think it's about "fitting in".
  - waterlesscloud 12y ago
    I don't fit, which is fine. But you missed my point, which I'll make explicit. "But you have no idea why" is condescending and dismissive. It betrays an arrogance that's very off-putting.

bryanh 12y ago

Very incorrect. The YC founders I know are have a degree from none-Ivy league schools, didn't work at Google/Facebook and didn't write a book.

dropit_sphere 12y ago

I think you're placing too much importance on "getting in" to YC. YC spots may be a limited commodity, but startups aren't. It's true that YC provides a great network, a media boost, and money, but...those are neither necessary nor sufficient for success. Save your money, make a product, get people to pay you for it. When they say "No," ask them why not. That's it. A lot of work. It probably won't make you famous. If it's fame you want, start a Youtube channel.

ChrisNorstrom 12y ago

What a sad, self defeatist attitude. You just knocked yourself down before anyone else did. It seems you're afraid of trying because you're afraid of failure. You're the type of person that probably won't get accepted. Because if this is your attitude now, who knows what your mood's going to be like when your startup goes through turbulence. You're searching for a reason not to apply. To keep failure at bay. To keep pain from the ego.

rmena123 12y ago
I'm the type of person that doesn't care to be accepted and rather put energy into my own startup. I will be successful regardless, it's not saying I am afraid to fail. Failure and success have nothing to do with being accepted or rejected from YC. I think YC would be great and what they do is great, my hats off to the whole place, but people like you talk like YC is the win all.
- ChrisNorstrom 12y ago
  "people like you talk like YC is the win all" Hey, you're the one that didn't want to apply because you didn't think you'd fit in due to your preconceived notions about who gets accepted.
  - rmena123 12y ago
    Like I said above... Look up the majority of founders and they all fall into a category type. Not saying it's a bad thing, but it's a type. Yea I did say that, but you are talking about success and failure like that has anything to do with applying or not. If you think I wont have success because I don't apply I feel bad for that thinking.
    - skj 12y ago
      He's not saying that not applying causes not succeeding, but that the reasons you give for not applying cause not succeeding. That is, correlation, not causation.

scobar 12y ago

I'll reiterate something YC partners have said. If you're working on a startup, even if you don't apply, completing the application is a great way to clarify your idea and focus on what's important moving forward. If you don't have much to show yet, don't sweat it. Just get started, and work on your ideas with whatever time you can afford. Some applicants will have accomplished more, but some may have started with huge disadvantages and overcame far more adversity to achieve a much less impressive track record. Regardless of not being the type that seemingly has an advantage, if you're going to build a successful startup, then go build it. I just returned from meeting with the CEO of the only YC company based in my state. He's an awesome guy, and I'm very grateful he took the time to meet with me and offer his advice. Throughout the meeting, it seemed like he had the impression that I had no idea how much work I had ahead of me and how hard it actually is to get into YC. Being underestimated like that is so thrilling; I love it! It means he'll be that much more impressed when I accomplish what I plan to do whether I get into YC or not.

rmena123 12y ago

I am not saying selecting a type of group of people is wrong, but YC does have a type they only choose. If you disagree look up any founder and they will fall into a category type. Ask yourself... How many woman accepted and not in recent years. How many Mexicans? How many african americans? How many regular guys that just had a prototype but no background to back it up. It's ok, I just don't know why YC acts like they are so diverse when clearly they aren't.