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>The farmers apparently take the drug themselves, at pretty high dosages, saying that it allows them to work without getting tiree. That's insane. Tramadol is

>The farmers apparently take the drug themselves, at pretty high dosages, saying that it allows them to work without getting tiree. That's insane. Tramadol is among the worst painkillers to use recreationally, which is why it's often the next line of analgesic therapy after NSAIDs and before hydrocodone. It is a comparatively weak mu-opioid agonist, so the dose a person would have to take to get a prototypical opioid high, likely quadruple a normal prescribed dose at minimum, is pushing the margin of safety. I am not advocating drug use here, but if you're dead set on getting high, please use something else- namely something with a higher mu-affinity that would require a lower dose, and ideally something that's not combined with acetaminophen or other NSAIDs.

Houshalter 12y ago
Presumably they are getting the drug from supplies meant for the cattle. It's not like they have a choice of drugs to use.
- titanomachy 12y ago
  The article actually seemed to imply that the farmers started taking it first and thought (for some reason) that the cows might also benefit.
tedunangst 12y ago
It doesn't sound like they're trying to get high, per se, just work harder without feeling it. A "recreational" dose would probably interfere with getting work done.
- dbbolton 12y ago
  Not necessarily. Opioids, like other euphoriants, are somewhat "stimulating" (mentally) in small doses. I know they aren't just "trying to get high". The problem is that in order to get any psychotropic effects from Tramadol, the dose is so high that a lot of other really nasty effects will come with it. A 5mg dose of hydrocodone would accomplish the effect they are after with very little negative physical effects. If they were just using it as an analgesic, which the article clearly indicated is not the case, it would be a different story.
  - ceol 12y ago
    Wouldn't Tramadol be classified as a psychotropic just by virtue of it inhibiting your central nervous system? As someone who takes Tramadol for pain, it does have an odd effect when I'm tired: I find I become less tired, as if the Tramadol is making me ignore my fatigue. Oxycodone, on the other hand, causes me to be more drowsy. This might be what the farmers are talking about.
    - dbbolton 12y ago
      First of all, I didn't say that Tramadol was not a psychotropic. I said it was not a potent one. Second, the definition you are describing is a depressant, not a psychotropic.
  - phylofx 12y ago
    You can't be serious. Are you advocating hydrocodone here which has one of the highest potential for debilitating addiction, so much so actually that it is banned in many countries and no longer available for medical use?
    - dbbolton 12y ago
      I explicitly stated that I was not advocating drug use. What I am advocating, if you would actually bother read my comments, was that the farmers' dose and dose frequency are pushing the therapeutic window (i.e. it nears toxicity). Regularly taking a therapeutic-level dose of hydrocodone would not push that window. If you think repeatedly taking extremely high doses of Tramadol is somehow safer than small doses of hydrocodone, then you're unbelievably ignorant. As a side note, hydrocodone is one of the least potent mu-opioid antagonists, but it is more potent than Tramadol. That is the only reason I mentioned it by name. And I take no stock in governmental drug laws with regard to pharmacology, so your mention of it being removed from medical use in a handful of countries means nothing to me.
  - MortenK 12y ago
    This is not entirely true. Tramadol are often given in doses of 3x50 mg a day for pain relief. To a user with no tolerance, the most common lowest dose, i.e. 1x50 mg is certainly more than enough to give a euphoric feeling, ability to concentrate, stress relief and a whole range of other effects. Effects obviously can't be compared to "real" opiates, where the effect is much stronger and have more of a sedative effect. It should also be noted the effects vary quite a bit depending on the individual, i.e. some people don't have much of a reaction to Tramadol.
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  Half right. They're using for the benefits you cite, but taking a much higher than indicated dose (based on Yonatan Zunger's fascinating G+ thread on this topic).
kranner 12y ago
I just want to note that acetaminophen (paracetamol) is not an NSAID. As a haemophilia patient who can't take NSAIDs but can take acetaminophen, this is an important distinction for me.

Houshalter 12y ago

Presumably they are getting the drug from supplies meant for the cattle. It's not like they have a choice of drugs to use.

titanomachy 12y ago
The article actually seemed to imply that the farmers started taking it first and thought (for some reason) that the cows might also benefit.

tedunangst 12y ago

It doesn't sound like they're trying to get high, per se, just work harder without feeling it. A "recreational" dose would probably interfere with getting work done.

dbbolton 12y ago
Not necessarily. Opioids, like other euphoriants, are somewhat "stimulating" (mentally) in small doses. I know they aren't just "trying to get high". The problem is that in order to get any psychotropic effects from Tramadol, the dose is so high that a lot of other really nasty effects will come with it. A 5mg dose of hydrocodone would accomplish the effect they are after with very little negative physical effects. If they were just using it as an analgesic, which the article clearly indicated is not the case, it would be a different story.
- ceol 12y ago
  Wouldn't Tramadol be classified as a psychotropic just by virtue of it inhibiting your central nervous system? As someone who takes Tramadol for pain, it does have an odd effect when I'm tired: I find I become less tired, as if the Tramadol is making me ignore my fatigue. Oxycodone, on the other hand, causes me to be more drowsy. This might be what the farmers are talking about.
  - dbbolton 12y ago
    First of all, I didn't say that Tramadol was not a psychotropic. I said it was not a potent one. Second, the definition you are describing is a depressant, not a psychotropic.
- phylofx 12y ago
  You can't be serious. Are you advocating hydrocodone here which has one of the highest potential for debilitating addiction, so much so actually that it is banned in many countries and no longer available for medical use?
  - dbbolton 12y ago
    I explicitly stated that I was not advocating drug use. What I am advocating, if you would actually bother read my comments, was that the farmers' dose and dose frequency are pushing the therapeutic window (i.e. it nears toxicity). Regularly taking a therapeutic-level dose of hydrocodone would not push that window. If you think repeatedly taking extremely high doses of Tramadol is somehow safer than small doses of hydrocodone, then you're unbelievably ignorant. As a side note, hydrocodone is one of the least potent mu-opioid antagonists, but it is more potent than Tramadol. That is the only reason I mentioned it by name. And I take no stock in governmental drug laws with regard to pharmacology, so your mention of it being removed from medical use in a handful of countries means nothing to me.
- MortenK 12y ago
  This is not entirely true. Tramadol are often given in doses of 3x50 mg a day for pain relief. To a user with no tolerance, the most common lowest dose, i.e. 1x50 mg is certainly more than enough to give a euphoric feeling, ability to concentrate, stress relief and a whole range of other effects. Effects obviously can't be compared to "real" opiates, where the effect is much stronger and have more of a sedative effect. It should also be noted the effects vary quite a bit depending on the individual, i.e. some people don't have much of a reaction to Tramadol.
dredmorbius 12y ago
Half right. They're using for the benefits you cite, but taking a much higher than indicated dose (based on Yonatan Zunger's fascinating G+ thread on this topic).

kranner 12y ago

I just want to note that acetaminophen (paracetamol) is not an NSAID. As a haemophilia patient who can't take NSAIDs but can take acetaminophen, this is an important distinction for me.