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Perhaps it's that Notch invited the entitlement with an explicit promise ? http://web.archive.org/web/20100301103851/http://www.minecraft.net/about.jsp http://w

Perhaps it's that Notch invited the entitlement with an explicit promise ? http://web.archive.org/web/20100301103851/http://www.minecraft.net/about.jsp http://web.archive.org/web/20100301103851/http://www.minecra... Included there is a dedication to (eventually) make the work open-source or public domain, and to contribute to it so long as people are paying. Those promises drove MindCraft praise, good will, and adoption. Do you think asking someone to keep these promises, the ones that drove adoption (and hence his current good fortune) is... entitlement?

anigbrowl 12y ago
I don't see that he, personally, has to contribute free expansions, it's enough if Mojang does. A lot of people seem to be assuming that purchase by MS means the end of mods and the start of paid expansion packs. Is there definite evidence for this claim, or is it just speculation? As for releasing it as open source, I went to your link and it says 'Once sales start dying and a minimum time has passed, I will release the game source code as some kind of open source.' How do you know he has gone back on this promise, as I have not seen any statement to the contrary so far? Your claims of entitlement seem to rest on unproven assumptions. Is there some evidence out there you could link to, for those of us who don't follow the company/product closely?
dasil003 12y ago
Yes, yes I do. The fact that you see his future plans as some kind of ironclad contract is precisely the problem. Minecraft did not explode because of these promises, it succeeded because of the reality on the ground as a fun game. Notch gave the world a fun game, you gave him a small purchase price in order to enjoy it, end of transaction. The fact that he published thoughts and future plans does indenture him as your eternal entertainment provider. He should be free to leave daily development and do with his creation as he will, including deciding to do something differently than he originally envisioned. This is his prerogative as creator. To all the people who claim their participation "made" the success of Minecraft, I say bullshit, you are playing a fucking game. You know what's a lot worse for humanity? When Twitter decided to be a media company instead of an infrastructure company. That also pissed off a lot of people who "made" the success of the company. But you know what? Same deal. It's their prerogative. You can cry and gnash your teeth, and of course you are entitled to your opinion, but the value of all those opinions? Farts in the wind.
- kaoD 12y ago
  The repeated use of the verb "will" definitely tricked me into believing it was a verbal contract, not just fuzzy plans (and I still believe he meant it as a contract). I personally don't care, bought Minecraft, enjoyed it and moved along as I realized the modding system would never see the light... but I definitely understand why people feel disappointed.
  - balloot 12y ago
    A blog post is neither "verbal" nor a "contract", no matter how many times the word "will" is used.
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      > A blog post is neither "verbal" A blog post is -- if, as most are, it is composed of words -- verbal. Its not "oral", but those two don't mean the same thing.
      - DanBC 12y ago
        Don't be obtuse. The phrase "verbal contract" is specifically oral contract.
        kaoD 12y ago
        Quoting Wikipedia: "The term verbal contract is sometimes incorrectly used as a synonym for oral contract. However, a verbal contract is one that is agreed to using words, either written or spoken, as opposed to an implied contract." It's funny how GP is heavily downvoted even though he's right. Downvoters (which I assume you're one of) didn't even check their facts. Sometimes HN sucks.
        DanBC 12y ago
        Even wikipedia says you shouldn't use them as a reference. Can you find any example of usage of "verbal contract" to mean anything other than "spoken contract"?
nl 12y ago
What he actually said is worth quoting: Once sales start dying and a minimum time has passed, I will release the game source code as some kind of open source. Given that sales are still growing, I don't think you can even hold that against him. He also said: I'm going to have to include some way of winning the game That never happened, either. Intentions change, and you don't see people judging him on that. Your sense of entitlement is why corporations now include "forward looking statement" disclaimers.
- backlava 12y ago
  If you kill the ender dragon you get a credits screen. Does that not count as winning?
  - nl 12y ago
    Yeah, maybe I guess.. But it's not really the point of the game is it?
    - Ntrails 12y ago
      It can be, if you want it to - that's the whole point. Much like there are people who play WoW to accumulate gold, or PvP rankings, or raid success, or epic gear, or a working guild, or to craft all of the recipes, or something else I've not encountered. The fascinating thing to me is that WoW's success was predicated on keeping people playing by paying content creators to come up with new goals for players to strive for, but minecraft demonstrates that people are more than capable of creating their own goals and successes within a sufficiently open ended game. For me, it was a lava moat. Then a pitched roof. Then a farm. Then a railway that took hours to build (and didn't go anywhere useful in retrospect). Then... etc
watwut 12y ago
Quoting the page you just linked: "Once sales start dying and a minimum time has passed, I will release the game source code as some kind of open source. " Sales are not dying and minimum time did not passed. It does not even look like the sales will die soon. He was thinking about releasing the game when the game is dead and abandoned by gamers. Even if you take the above as a promise, the initial condition is not met and there is no requirement on him to do anything.

anigbrowl 12y ago

I don't see that he, personally, has to contribute free expansions, it's enough if Mojang does. A lot of people seem to be assuming that purchase by MS means the end of mods and the start of paid expansion packs. Is there definite evidence for this claim, or is it just speculation? As for releasing it as open source, I went to your link and it says 'Once sales start dying and a minimum time has passed, I will release the game source code as some kind of open source.' How do you know he has gone back on this promise, as I have not seen any statement to the contrary so far? Your claims of entitlement seem to rest on unproven assumptions. Is there some evidence out there you could link to, for those of us who don't follow the company/product closely?

dasil003 12y ago

Yes, yes I do. The fact that you see his future plans as some kind of ironclad contract is precisely the problem. Minecraft did not explode because of these promises, it succeeded because of the reality on the ground as a fun game. Notch gave the world a fun game, you gave him a small purchase price in order to enjoy it, end of transaction. The fact that he published thoughts and future plans does indenture him as your eternal entertainment provider. He should be free to leave daily development and do with his creation as he will, including deciding to do something differently than he originally envisioned. This is his prerogative as creator. To all the people who claim their participation "made" the success of Minecraft, I say bullshit, you are playing a fucking game. You know what's a lot worse for humanity? When Twitter decided to be a media company instead of an infrastructure company. That also pissed off a lot of people who "made" the success of the company. But you know what? Same deal. It's their prerogative. You can cry and gnash your teeth, and of course you are entitled to your opinion, but the value of all those opinions? Farts in the wind.

kaoD 12y ago
The repeated use of the verb "will" definitely tricked me into believing it was a verbal contract, not just fuzzy plans (and I still believe he meant it as a contract). I personally don't care, bought Minecraft, enjoyed it and moved along as I realized the modding system would never see the light... but I definitely understand why people feel disappointed.
- balloot 12y ago
  A blog post is neither "verbal" nor a "contract", no matter how many times the word "will" is used.
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    > A blog post is neither "verbal" A blog post is -- if, as most are, it is composed of words -- verbal. Its not "oral", but those two don't mean the same thing.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      Don't be obtuse. The phrase "verbal contract" is specifically oral contract.
      - kaoD 12y ago
        Quoting Wikipedia: "The term verbal contract is sometimes incorrectly used as a synonym for oral contract. However, a verbal contract is one that is agreed to using words, either written or spoken, as opposed to an implied contract." It's funny how GP is heavily downvoted even though he's right. Downvoters (which I assume you're one of) didn't even check their facts. Sometimes HN sucks.
        DanBC 12y ago
        Even wikipedia says you shouldn't use them as a reference. Can you find any example of usage of "verbal contract" to mean anything other than "spoken contract"?

nl 12y ago

What he actually said is worth quoting: Once sales start dying and a minimum time has passed, I will release the game source code as some kind of open source. Given that sales are still growing, I don't think you can even hold that against him. He also said: I'm going to have to include some way of winning the game That never happened, either. Intentions change, and you don't see people judging him on that. Your sense of entitlement is why corporations now include "forward looking statement" disclaimers.

backlava 12y ago
If you kill the ender dragon you get a credits screen. Does that not count as winning?
- nl 12y ago
  Yeah, maybe I guess.. But it's not really the point of the game is it?
  - Ntrails 12y ago
    It can be, if you want it to - that's the whole point. Much like there are people who play WoW to accumulate gold, or PvP rankings, or raid success, or epic gear, or a working guild, or to craft all of the recipes, or something else I've not encountered. The fascinating thing to me is that WoW's success was predicated on keeping people playing by paying content creators to come up with new goals for players to strive for, but minecraft demonstrates that people are more than capable of creating their own goals and successes within a sufficiently open ended game. For me, it was a lava moat. Then a pitched roof. Then a farm. Then a railway that took hours to build (and didn't go anywhere useful in retrospect). Then... etc

watwut 12y ago

Quoting the page you just linked: "Once sales start dying and a minimum time has passed, I will release the game source code as some kind of open source. " Sales are not dying and minimum time did not passed. It does not even look like the sales will die soon. He was thinking about releasing the game when the game is dead and abandoned by gamers. Even if you take the above as a promise, the initial condition is not met and there is no requirement on him to do anything.