9 ms·

Launching Today: Mathematica Online

203 points by lelf 12y ago

than 12y ago
Worth watching again, the introduction to the Wolfram language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P9HqHVPeik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P9HqHVPeik
williamstein 12y ago
I have been waiting for "Mathematica Online" to be released since they've been giving hints about it "coming soon" since about 2008. So this is a big announcement. Us Sage developers have also been building something similar to this, but around IPython/Sage https://cloud.sagemath.com https://cloud.sagemath.com, and we've also built something similar for embedding in web pages https://sagecell.sagemath.org/ https://sagecell.sagemath.org/.
- oakleon 12y ago
  I would have loved to have something like this in school. I ended up paying for mathematica while working on my degree. I think IPython/Sage connected to an open-source version of Wolfram Alpha would be a Killer app. Any chance Julia would be integrated at some point?
  - williamstein 12y ago
    Multiple forms of Julia integration in https://cloud.sagemath.com https://cloud.sagemath.com is very high on my list. We already have syntax highlighting for editing julia files, and Julia is installed and usable from the command line. What's missing is support for both IJulia (Ipython notebook julia) and a Julia mode for Sage worksheets.
  - jordigh 12y ago
    Open source version of Alpha? That will never happen. Wolfram is the most anti-source-code person out there. He even has this diatribe about why you should not be allowed to see "his" source code: http://reference.wolfram.com/language/tutorial/WhyYouDoNotUsuallyNeedToKnowAboutInternals.html http://reference.wolfram.com/language/tutorial/WhyYouDoNotUs...
    - derefr 12y ago
      That's odd for a business so concerned about selling to academia. You'd expect journals to reject papers where the number-crunching went through a "black box" like that.
      - JonnieCache 12y ago
        He's known as a bit of an egomaniac. If you fancy some entertainment, go looking on reddit or whatever for testimony from former employees.
    - tjl 12y ago
      SymPy has made a start on an open source version of Alpha, SymPy Gamma, http://www.sympygamma.com http://www.sympygamma.com The biggest missing piece it's missing is the data used by Alpha. It's missing other things as well, but it's a start.
      - jordigh 12y ago
        I don't know if it's too late for this, but as a matter of marketing, why not Omega instead of Gamma? Alpha was the first word on the subject. Omega will be the last.
        tjl 12y ago
        I wasn't involved in the Gamma aspects of SymPy. At this point, Gamma is probably more appropriate.
    - wolfwolfwolf 12y ago
      How can academics use this software without being exasperated that the name "Wolfram" is constantly shoved into their face? Especially since the guy only wrote a fraction of the "Wolfram System" (A NEW KIND OF SYSTEM!!!).
    - msane 12y ago
      nonetheless, the man makes cool things which I think are worth their price.
- S4M 12y ago
  You can try Maxima online (http://maxima-online.org/ http://maxima-online.org/). Maxima is an open source CAS written in Common Lisp.
tunesmith 12y ago
I'm curious about other people's experiences learning the Wolfram language if they're not already a mathematician. I've been tempted a few times, but the language (and Mathematica itself) has so far struck me as one of those "Sure, seems like it can do amazing things after you already know how to do it" types of technologies. As opposed to languages where you can reason yourself towards the correct approach. It seems sort of similar to Applescript that way. What was it it like for you to learn it, and how did you go about it?
- spitfire 12y ago
  If you come from a programming background, just treat it as a Lisp with M-expressions rather than S-expressions. It all comes together quite quickly then. At it's core Mathematica is actually a rule rewriting engine. but except for more heavyweight uses you can view it as simply a Lisp with the worlds best standard library.
  - larve 12y ago
    it's a great language, once you get past the fact that writing code in the notebook is a horrible experience. You get a great lisp, along with pattern matching and rule replacement. I can recommend the book by Paul Welling, as well as the books by Michael Trott (very meandering). Just funking things up in the notebook is the most fun I've been having in a long time. You just get sucked into trying more and more things, adding manipulates around it, playing some more, taking the output image and running image processing on it then converting it to a mesh on which you solve differential equations.
    - spitfire 12y ago
      I disagree, I think the notebook is one of the best interfaces I've ever found. Just not for "traditional programming". The notebook is a literate programming document. It contains my thoughts and process for creating an algorithm/piece of code along with tests and examples. This is very, very different from how people traditionally "program". However, Mathematica has some very real, very strong deficiencies if you wanted to build an application end-to-end within it. It's dynamically typed, with everything-is-a-list mentality. So you will get type errors. Unit testing (let alone combinator libraries like quick check) are only available at the higher price levels. Warning personal opinions ahead!! Wolfram employees often have have strange views on how software is built outside of Wolfram Inc. Unit tests are alien, and type checking or datatypes (Say, to make sure that order your fancy Mathematica based trading system is going to make is sane) are seen as only things dumb rails programmers need. Rather than tools to make developers more powerful. I would honestly recommend every programmer learn Mathematica. I'm sure they'll find that they can aim far higher when they have the right tools behind them. It's the same distance again from Python/Ruby as Python/Ruby are from C. Probably more.
JosephHatfield 12y ago
This is the beginning of the end for the conventional desktop license, I fear. Is the Wolfram Creative Cloud far behind?
- Sophistifunk 12y ago
  Seems unlikely, I imagine a lot of the users live behind extremely restrictive firewalls.
  - kuhnster 12y ago
    I agree, seems unlikely
azakai 12y ago
> We're sorry, the server encountered a problem and could not process your request. is all I get. Is it working for anyone else? edit: sometimes a reload shows it for a second, then it says "session expiring" and the error page shows up again
judk 12y ago
$15/mo is still too high for dabblers. It should have a free or cheaper tier (with low quota, or $0.20/hr, bill as-you-use like AWS) for people who want want to fiddle.
- tachyonbeam 12y ago
  Allowing people to try it for free would definitely help them attract potential users. IMO they should just use a cookie to let you try it out for a couple of days, and then tell you that you need to buy the product. It's easy to circumvent, but a ton of people would just choose to pay for it. I also think that they should have some kind of student pricing. Many students couldn't afford $15/month, but they might be able to afford $15/year.
  - tjl 12y ago
    I'm a SymPy developer, but I'd probably pay $15/year just to test different things so I could compare results. I won't pay $15/month, though. Especially since other developers have access to it, mainly through their university.
  - Niksko 12y ago
    Wolfram need to basically adopt the model that Adobe unofficially has ie. don't stress too much about users pirating your software, because they'll become so dependent on it that when they go and use it in industry they'll demand enterprise licenses. Except Wolfram should just restore Wolfram Alpha to its once free glory (instead of the annoying nagware that it's become) and also offer this Wolfram cloud stuff at a reduced price. The end goal for them should be to convince people that they need to purchase Mathematica. Pricing at $15/month means they're only really attracting existing Mathematica users who want the convenience of the cloud when they're away from their primary machine.
  - taliesinb 12y ago
    You can try the Programming Cloud for free. That also exposes the Wolfram Language.
bloaf 12y ago
How is data security handled? If a company wanted to analyze some sensitive/proprietary-type data, could they do so in Mathematica Online with some confidence that the data is safe?
- rhodin 12y ago
  There's a private cloud option coming, where you can link to internal databases etc.
jwr 12y ago
You've got to love the choice of names in the cloud file permissions screenshot, chosen to sit alongside Stephen Wolfram :-)
jayvanguard 12y ago
This looks like the classic "we don't want to cannibalize our desktop sales" pricing model. Nothing revolutionary here...

203 points by lelf 12y ago

than 12y ago

Worth watching again, the introduction to the Wolfram language: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P9HqHVPeik https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P9HqHVPeik

williamstein 12y ago

I have been waiting for "Mathematica Online" to be released since they've been giving hints about it "coming soon" since about 2008. So this is a big announcement. Us Sage developers have also been building something similar to this, but around IPython/Sage https://cloud.sagemath.com https://cloud.sagemath.com, and we've also built something similar for embedding in web pages https://sagecell.sagemath.org/ https://sagecell.sagemath.org/.

oakleon 12y ago
I would have loved to have something like this in school. I ended up paying for mathematica while working on my degree. I think IPython/Sage connected to an open-source version of Wolfram Alpha would be a Killer app. Any chance Julia would be integrated at some point?
- williamstein 12y ago
  Multiple forms of Julia integration in https://cloud.sagemath.com https://cloud.sagemath.com is very high on my list. We already have syntax highlighting for editing julia files, and Julia is installed and usable from the command line. What's missing is support for both IJulia (Ipython notebook julia) and a Julia mode for Sage worksheets.
- jordigh 12y ago
  Open source version of Alpha? That will never happen. Wolfram is the most anti-source-code person out there. He even has this diatribe about why you should not be allowed to see "his" source code: http://reference.wolfram.com/language/tutorial/WhyYouDoNotUsuallyNeedToKnowAboutInternals.html http://reference.wolfram.com/language/tutorial/WhyYouDoNotUs...
  - derefr 12y ago
    That's odd for a business so concerned about selling to academia. You'd expect journals to reject papers where the number-crunching went through a "black box" like that.
    - JonnieCache 12y ago
      He's known as a bit of an egomaniac. If you fancy some entertainment, go looking on reddit or whatever for testimony from former employees.
  - tjl 12y ago
    SymPy has made a start on an open source version of Alpha, SymPy Gamma, http://www.sympygamma.com http://www.sympygamma.com The biggest missing piece it's missing is the data used by Alpha. It's missing other things as well, but it's a start.
    - jordigh 12y ago
      I don't know if it's too late for this, but as a matter of marketing, why not Omega instead of Gamma? Alpha was the first word on the subject. Omega will be the last.
      - tjl 12y ago
        I wasn't involved in the Gamma aspects of SymPy. At this point, Gamma is probably more appropriate.
  - wolfwolfwolf 12y ago
    How can academics use this software without being exasperated that the name "Wolfram" is constantly shoved into their face? Especially since the guy only wrote a fraction of the "Wolfram System" (A NEW KIND OF SYSTEM!!!).
  - msane 12y ago
    nonetheless, the man makes cool things which I think are worth their price.
S4M 12y ago
You can try Maxima online (http://maxima-online.org/ http://maxima-online.org/). Maxima is an open source CAS written in Common Lisp.

tunesmith 12y ago

I'm curious about other people's experiences learning the Wolfram language if they're not already a mathematician. I've been tempted a few times, but the language (and Mathematica itself) has so far struck me as one of those "Sure, seems like it can do amazing things after you already know how to do it" types of technologies. As opposed to languages where you can reason yourself towards the correct approach. It seems sort of similar to Applescript that way. What was it it like for you to learn it, and how did you go about it?

spitfire 12y ago
If you come from a programming background, just treat it as a Lisp with M-expressions rather than S-expressions. It all comes together quite quickly then. At it's core Mathematica is actually a rule rewriting engine. but except for more heavyweight uses you can view it as simply a Lisp with the worlds best standard library.
- larve 12y ago
  it's a great language, once you get past the fact that writing code in the notebook is a horrible experience. You get a great lisp, along with pattern matching and rule replacement. I can recommend the book by Paul Welling, as well as the books by Michael Trott (very meandering). Just funking things up in the notebook is the most fun I've been having in a long time. You just get sucked into trying more and more things, adding manipulates around it, playing some more, taking the output image and running image processing on it then converting it to a mesh on which you solve differential equations.
  - spitfire 12y ago
    I disagree, I think the notebook is one of the best interfaces I've ever found. Just not for "traditional programming". The notebook is a literate programming document. It contains my thoughts and process for creating an algorithm/piece of code along with tests and examples. This is very, very different from how people traditionally "program". However, Mathematica has some very real, very strong deficiencies if you wanted to build an application end-to-end within it. It's dynamically typed, with everything-is-a-list mentality. So you will get type errors. Unit testing (let alone combinator libraries like quick check) are only available at the higher price levels. Warning personal opinions ahead!! Wolfram employees often have have strange views on how software is built outside of Wolfram Inc. Unit tests are alien, and type checking or datatypes (Say, to make sure that order your fancy Mathematica based trading system is going to make is sane) are seen as only things dumb rails programmers need. Rather than tools to make developers more powerful. I would honestly recommend every programmer learn Mathematica. I'm sure they'll find that they can aim far higher when they have the right tools behind them. It's the same distance again from Python/Ruby as Python/Ruby are from C. Probably more.

JosephHatfield 12y ago

This is the beginning of the end for the conventional desktop license, I fear. Is the Wolfram Creative Cloud far behind?

Sophistifunk 12y ago
Seems unlikely, I imagine a lot of the users live behind extremely restrictive firewalls.
- kuhnster 12y ago
  I agree, seems unlikely

azakai 12y ago

> We're sorry, the server encountered a problem and could not process your request. is all I get. Is it working for anyone else? edit: sometimes a reload shows it for a second, then it says "session expiring" and the error page shows up again

judk 12y ago

$15/mo is still too high for dabblers. It should have a free or cheaper tier (with low quota, or $0.20/hr, bill as-you-use like AWS) for people who want want to fiddle.

tachyonbeam 12y ago
Allowing people to try it for free would definitely help them attract potential users. IMO they should just use a cookie to let you try it out for a couple of days, and then tell you that you need to buy the product. It's easy to circumvent, but a ton of people would just choose to pay for it. I also think that they should have some kind of student pricing. Many students couldn't afford $15/month, but they might be able to afford $15/year.
- tjl 12y ago
  I'm a SymPy developer, but I'd probably pay $15/year just to test different things so I could compare results. I won't pay $15/month, though. Especially since other developers have access to it, mainly through their university.
- Niksko 12y ago
  Wolfram need to basically adopt the model that Adobe unofficially has ie. don't stress too much about users pirating your software, because they'll become so dependent on it that when they go and use it in industry they'll demand enterprise licenses. Except Wolfram should just restore Wolfram Alpha to its once free glory (instead of the annoying nagware that it's become) and also offer this Wolfram cloud stuff at a reduced price. The end goal for them should be to convince people that they need to purchase Mathematica. Pricing at $15/month means they're only really attracting existing Mathematica users who want the convenience of the cloud when they're away from their primary machine.
- taliesinb 12y ago
  You can try the Programming Cloud for free. That also exposes the Wolfram Language.

bloaf 12y ago

How is data security handled? If a company wanted to analyze some sensitive/proprietary-type data, could they do so in Mathematica Online with some confidence that the data is safe?

rhodin 12y ago
There's a private cloud option coming, where you can link to internal databases etc.

jwr 12y ago

You've got to love the choice of names in the cloud file permissions screenshot, chosen to sit alongside Stephen Wolfram :-)

jayvanguard 12y ago

This looks like the classic "we don't want to cannibalize our desktop sales" pricing model. Nothing revolutionary here...