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This is why we can't have nice things. I don't know much about Minecraft or whatever issue Notch is referring to in his post. But I'm always struck by how qui

This is why we can't have nice things. I don't know much about Minecraft or whatever issue Notch is referring to in his post. But I'm always struck by how quickly people snap to emotional argument and response, without thinking about the other side of the question, without thinking about how their response will be read or felt by others. The first step in any dialogue is trying to understand why the other side has said or done what they have, and how that might seem reasonable and right to them. Without that, how do we have any hope of learning anything, or moving to any actual agreement? And yet 98% of what I read presumes that any disagreement must be ignorant, stupid or evil. I understand many of the reasons why people talk this way, and yes, it's hard to avoid it. But we now have more communication amongst ourselves than at any other time in human history. Maybe it's time to start thinking hard about how each of us can communicate better. Wouldn't it be great if we could get to a community where some idiosyncratic dude could write a monster hit without feeling himself battered for reasons he can't understand?

madeofpalk 12y ago
I think it's just simpler than that. The impression I got was not that he left because of hate he was getting, but just because Minecraft got really popular and turned into something much bigger than he expected. It sounds like he doesn't want to be a part of anything that big - he just wants to have fun hacking on games.
- arcatek 12y ago
  I would guess that the EULA shitstorm has been the last straw.
watwut 12y ago
The hate weeks ago was about money, basically. Part of EULA that disallowed servers to earn money, but was often ignored. Mojang clarified that that part of EULA is indeed meant as written. People do not tend to be understanding when it comes to loosing money they wanted/expected. Moreover, I suspect that managing Minecraft is a lot about merchandize selling, cons organization, making deals with lego and everyone else who want to produce themed items and so on. Not necessary what you want to deal with if you consider yourself gamemaker or programmer.
- wtbob 12y ago
  Remember that the money was necessary in order to pay for the (really quite expensive) servers which people play on. And that Mojang were changing the culture as it has been, and as it has been successful. It's sad to see the effect this has had on the servers I've played on. And it was all so pointless: at the end of the day, who really cares if players who chuck in $10/month get a free set of diamond armour or a house?
  - Lazare 12y ago
    Here's the problematic script: Little Johnny finds a server that is selling diamond tools for $100 a pop. He says something about how he doesn't know hoe to buy things online, and a nice server admin walks him through "borrowing" his parents credit card and making the purchase. His parents get the bill, hit the ceiling, google "Minecraft", get a number for Mojang, call up, and start screaming at people to refund the money. It happens. Having a decentralized server system with unregulated "in app purchases" and a very young fan base in a recipe for bad publicity, angry parents, upset kids, and bad vibes all the way around.
    - wtbob 12y ago
      Parents should control their children, right? When I was a kid, I wouldn't have dreamed of stealing my folks' credit card—and had I, that would have been their fault for raising me poorly, and my fault for doing it, and the criminals' fault for encouraging me to do it, not some random fourth party's fault for not saying, 'don't do that.' People should be sane. The right response to a lunatic who blames Mojang for his child's actions is to hang up.
  - watwut 12y ago
    Those servers were going against EULA whole time. And this was not one hidden sentence among twenty pages of legalese in click through license. It business license that lined up pretty clearly how you can and how you can not earn money on Minecraft. Literally nothing changed that day, neither EULA nor the way it is enforced. Mojang cared somewhat about pricing patterns. It is the same thing as lego consistently refusing adult themes. They have an idea on what the brand should be (e.g. kid friendly or not play to win) and this went against. Mojang clarifies: EULA is meant as written, nothing changes. Not even enforcement, they were not starting campaign to kill those servers. And everybody looses mind.
chasing 12y ago
> This is why we can't have nice things. This is a nice thing. Notch gets the resources and freedom to do what he actually wants to be doing: Exploring and experimenting with game ideas. And Minecraft gets to continue developing as a product people enjoy.
serve_yay 12y ago
> I don't know much about Minecraft or whatever issue Notch is referring to in his post. But I'm always struck by how quickly people snap to emotional argument and response Wow!
- rmrfrmrf 12y ago
  lol it's almost beautiful, in a way.
Sir_Cmpwn 12y ago
I've been involved in the Minecraft community for a long while, but mostly from the sidelines as an observer. it's a nasty community full of more bitter and hateful people than any other community I've ever seen. It doesn't help that many of them are children. I don't blame Notch for wanting out.

madeofpalk 12y ago

I think it's just simpler than that. The impression I got was not that he left because of hate he was getting, but just because Minecraft got really popular and turned into something much bigger than he expected. It sounds like he doesn't want to be a part of anything that big - he just wants to have fun hacking on games.

arcatek 12y ago
I would guess that the EULA shitstorm has been the last straw.

watwut 12y ago

The hate weeks ago was about money, basically. Part of EULA that disallowed servers to earn money, but was often ignored. Mojang clarified that that part of EULA is indeed meant as written. People do not tend to be understanding when it comes to loosing money they wanted/expected. Moreover, I suspect that managing Minecraft is a lot about merchandize selling, cons organization, making deals with lego and everyone else who want to produce themed items and so on. Not necessary what you want to deal with if you consider yourself gamemaker or programmer.

wtbob 12y ago
Remember that the money was necessary in order to pay for the (really quite expensive) servers which people play on. And that Mojang were changing the culture as it has been, and as it has been successful. It's sad to see the effect this has had on the servers I've played on. And it was all so pointless: at the end of the day, who really cares if players who chuck in $10/month get a free set of diamond armour or a house?
- Lazare 12y ago
  Here's the problematic script: Little Johnny finds a server that is selling diamond tools for $100 a pop. He says something about how he doesn't know hoe to buy things online, and a nice server admin walks him through "borrowing" his parents credit card and making the purchase. His parents get the bill, hit the ceiling, google "Minecraft", get a number for Mojang, call up, and start screaming at people to refund the money. It happens. Having a decentralized server system with unregulated "in app purchases" and a very young fan base in a recipe for bad publicity, angry parents, upset kids, and bad vibes all the way around.
  - wtbob 12y ago
    Parents should control their children, right? When I was a kid, I wouldn't have dreamed of stealing my folks' credit card—and had I, that would have been their fault for raising me poorly, and my fault for doing it, and the criminals' fault for encouraging me to do it, not some random fourth party's fault for not saying, 'don't do that.' People should be sane. The right response to a lunatic who blames Mojang for his child's actions is to hang up.
- watwut 12y ago
  Those servers were going against EULA whole time. And this was not one hidden sentence among twenty pages of legalese in click through license. It business license that lined up pretty clearly how you can and how you can not earn money on Minecraft. Literally nothing changed that day, neither EULA nor the way it is enforced. Mojang cared somewhat about pricing patterns. It is the same thing as lego consistently refusing adult themes. They have an idea on what the brand should be (e.g. kid friendly or not play to win) and this went against. Mojang clarifies: EULA is meant as written, nothing changes. Not even enforcement, they were not starting campaign to kill those servers. And everybody looses mind.

chasing 12y ago

> This is why we can't have nice things. This is a nice thing. Notch gets the resources and freedom to do what he actually wants to be doing: Exploring and experimenting with game ideas. And Minecraft gets to continue developing as a product people enjoy.

serve_yay 12y ago

> I don't know much about Minecraft or whatever issue Notch is referring to in his post. But I'm always struck by how quickly people snap to emotional argument and response Wow!

rmrfrmrf 12y ago
lol it's almost beautiful, in a way.

Sir_Cmpwn 12y ago

I've been involved in the Minecraft community for a long while, but mostly from the sidelines as an observer. it's a nasty community full of more bitter and hateful people than any other community I've ever seen. It doesn't help that many of them are children. I don't blame Notch for wanting out.