4 ms·

"But there are undoubtedly other reasons for its neglect. Pharmaceutical companies have nothing to gain from this cheap, ubiquitous element." It's a tragic con

"But there are undoubtedly other reasons for its neglect. Pharmaceutical companies have nothing to gain from this cheap, ubiquitous element." It's a tragic condemnation of the way we do health and nutrition that if no one profits from marketing and selling something, the masses typically won't hear about the benefits of it.

andylei 12y ago
this just doesn't make sense. people sell bottled water! why can't they sell lithium?
- cbd1984 12y ago
  Because conspiracies drive page views. If a website can pin something on Big Pharma, well, it must be true, because a huge increase in click-through revenue doesn't lie.
- lutusp 12y ago
  Because bottled water doesn't have real or imagined therapeutic properties, and lithium does. Eventually someone unfamiliar with the rules will advertise a lithium/water product as having medical effects, and that will end the game (advertising medical benefits is a no-no without both research backing and FDA approval). EDIT: this is another example of the "fact rule" -- if you post something factual and uncontroversial, you will be downvoted with a probability of 1.
  - andreasvc 12y ago
    I disagree. There is a market for supplements, as long as they walk a careful line of avoiding the promise of any medical benefit. Lithium could be sold this way, in low dosages ("Lithia Springs water"), but it's probably not allowed? I remember that 7-up once contained lithium, but it was banned, even though the amount was very small. BTW: There is indeed an annoying level of unnecessary downvoting going on.
    - gwern 12y ago
      Lithium is already sold as a supplement. If you want to run out and buy eg lithium orotate, you certainly can. It's cheap too.
      - ozy23378 12y ago
        And bulk analytical-grade lithium carbonate, sulphate and citrate not marketed for human consumption are equally easy to acquire and even cheaper.
Symmetry 12y ago
It's not quite as bad as that. You can always take a common element, create a particular formulation you get past the FDA and market and sell that. http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-prescription/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-prescriptio...
- jvagner 12y ago
  It is as bad as that. Distribution, marketing, awareness, etc., are the mechanics AFTER research.
cbd1984 12y ago
People use the same argument about a lot of things, but we still eradicated smallpox despite how profitable smallpox treatments must have been. Really, it's a horrible argument. It presupposes that everyone working for Big Pharma is a sociopath who only cares about the next quarterly report.
- qq66 12y ago
  Actually, nowhere near "everyone working for Big Pharma" needs to be a sociopath for the industry to act sociopathically. In fact, it can happen with as few as one or even zero sociopaths, since the organization has properties of its own independent of the constituent humans. My favorite exploration of this idea is the TV show "The Wire."
  - cbd1984 12y ago
    It presupposes that there are no defectors, in a game-theoretic sense: Every company that could develop a cure or cheap therapy doesn't, even though that would be a very lucrative product: A cheap lithium pill would sell in huge volume and be profitable even with a minimal markup.
    - lutusp 12y ago
      > A cheap lithium pill would sell in huge volume and be profitable even with a minimal markup. The problem should be obvious -- lithium is an element that cannot be protected by trademark, patent or copyright. Anyone marketing it is sure to be undercut as soon as the product begins to win public acceptance and show a profit. The other issue is toxicity. Without professional advice, people might think that, because a small amount confers benefit, therefore more is better. But, not unlike vitamin A, lithium becomes toxic above relatively low levels. For that reason it's not likely to be sold over the counter.
      - ConceptJunkie 12y ago
        By your logic no one could make money selling Vitamin C. Also, the article talked about the benefits of consuming lithium at a tiny fraction of the therapeutic level. There are plenty of legal, common supplements that are similarly toxic if consumed in those amounts.
refurb 12y ago
That makes no sense. Lithium carbonate is a prescription drug and companies are making money off it.
- wiredfool 12y ago
  It's not patented, and it's cheap. (I think it's less than my insurance copay for a month's supply) Yes, they're making money off of it, but it's nowhere near levels where it's worth doing any marketing for it.

andylei 12y ago

this just doesn't make sense. people sell bottled water! why can't they sell lithium?

cbd1984 12y ago
Because conspiracies drive page views. If a website can pin something on Big Pharma, well, it must be true, because a huge increase in click-through revenue doesn't lie.
lutusp 12y ago
Because bottled water doesn't have real or imagined therapeutic properties, and lithium does. Eventually someone unfamiliar with the rules will advertise a lithium/water product as having medical effects, and that will end the game (advertising medical benefits is a no-no without both research backing and FDA approval). EDIT: this is another example of the "fact rule" -- if you post something factual and uncontroversial, you will be downvoted with a probability of 1.
- andreasvc 12y ago
  I disagree. There is a market for supplements, as long as they walk a careful line of avoiding the promise of any medical benefit. Lithium could be sold this way, in low dosages ("Lithia Springs water"), but it's probably not allowed? I remember that 7-up once contained lithium, but it was banned, even though the amount was very small. BTW: There is indeed an annoying level of unnecessary downvoting going on.
  - gwern 12y ago
    Lithium is already sold as a supplement. If you want to run out and buy eg lithium orotate, you certainly can. It's cheap too.
    - ozy23378 12y ago
      And bulk analytical-grade lithium carbonate, sulphate and citrate not marketed for human consumption are equally easy to acquire and even cheaper.

Symmetry 12y ago

It's not quite as bad as that. You can always take a common element, create a particular formulation you get past the FDA and market and sell that. http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-prescription/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/15/fish-now-by-prescriptio...

jvagner 12y ago
It is as bad as that. Distribution, marketing, awareness, etc., are the mechanics AFTER research.

cbd1984 12y ago

People use the same argument about a lot of things, but we still eradicated smallpox despite how profitable smallpox treatments must have been. Really, it's a horrible argument. It presupposes that everyone working for Big Pharma is a sociopath who only cares about the next quarterly report.

qq66 12y ago
Actually, nowhere near "everyone working for Big Pharma" needs to be a sociopath for the industry to act sociopathically. In fact, it can happen with as few as one or even zero sociopaths, since the organization has properties of its own independent of the constituent humans. My favorite exploration of this idea is the TV show "The Wire."
- cbd1984 12y ago
  It presupposes that there are no defectors, in a game-theoretic sense: Every company that could develop a cure or cheap therapy doesn't, even though that would be a very lucrative product: A cheap lithium pill would sell in huge volume and be profitable even with a minimal markup.
  - lutusp 12y ago
    > A cheap lithium pill would sell in huge volume and be profitable even with a minimal markup. The problem should be obvious -- lithium is an element that cannot be protected by trademark, patent or copyright. Anyone marketing it is sure to be undercut as soon as the product begins to win public acceptance and show a profit. The other issue is toxicity. Without professional advice, people might think that, because a small amount confers benefit, therefore more is better. But, not unlike vitamin A, lithium becomes toxic above relatively low levels. For that reason it's not likely to be sold over the counter.
    - ConceptJunkie 12y ago
      By your logic no one could make money selling Vitamin C. Also, the article talked about the benefits of consuming lithium at a tiny fraction of the therapeutic level. There are plenty of legal, common supplements that are similarly toxic if consumed in those amounts.

refurb 12y ago

That makes no sense. Lithium carbonate is a prescription drug and companies are making money off it.

wiredfool 12y ago
It's not patented, and it's cheap. (I think it's less than my insurance copay for a month's supply) Yes, they're making money off of it, but it's nowhere near levels where it's worth doing any marketing for it.