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Here's a broader look at tech stacks used by startups on Angel List: http://codingvc.com/which-technologies-do-startups-use-an-exploration-of-angellist-data htt

by nwenzel 12y ago

Here's a broader look at tech stacks used by startups on Angel List: http://codingvc.com/which-technologies-do-startups-use-an-exploration-of-angellist-data http://codingvc.com/which-technologies-do-startups-use-an-ex...

cageface 12y ago
Love this bit: The likelihood that PHP is being used is strongly anti-correlated with company quality.
- dennybritz 12y ago
  But... Correlation != Causation. I think the causal effect works more like this: People in the startup scene (and particularly in SV) are unlikely to pick PHP as the language of their choice -> Not many PHP companies started by experienced entrepreneurs -> Lower quality. The fact that PHP is correlated with lower startup quality (whatever that means) has probably nothing to do with PHP itself. If you forced all the smart people to use PHP, their companies would probably work out just as well.
  - rch 12y ago
    I was with you until the last line. Forcing really smart people to take a project in a direction they are fundamentally opposed to is suboptimal, at least.
    - dennybritz 12y ago
      I think you misinterpreted was I was trying to say. I didn't mean you should force people to use PHP (obviously that would be suboptimal) , but that the choice of technology has generally little to do with startup success. People who can execute well in terms of distribution and product can do so using any technology. It's just that this group of people is less likely to choose PHP for their projects because of cultural circumstances (SV, press, peers, etc).
- troymc 12y ago
  Unless you're Automattic (Wordpress.com). Or Acquia (Drupal). "Acquia… today announced that its co-founder Dries Buytaert was named CTO of the Year at the 2014 MassTLC Leadership Awards, hosted by the Massachusetts Technology Leadership Council. Acquia led all companies with four finalists at this year’s awards…" [1] Those examples show that PHP can be used, in a core way, by great technology companies. [1] http://www.acquia.com/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/dries-buytaert-named-cto-year-massachusetts-technology-leadership http://www.acquia.com/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/dries...
  - jayzalowitz 12y ago
    Mailchimp? Facebook? Saying php cant be used at a good startup is a bit like saying you can't start a good company over 35.
    - britknight 12y ago
      Correlation in not a death sentence. No one is saying it can't be used, merely making a observation based on the gathered statistics.
  - calibraxis 12y ago
    Personally, I think you can be suboptimal in all sorts of ways which cost you, yet nevertheless succeed. Though one problem: people use a tiny percentage of successful companies to justify their mistakes. One ad company manager told me, "Well Doubleclick's UI was slow!" But the obvious retort, if I thought he'd listen: "You're not at Doubleclick, are you? No, your company's failing miserably. Same with PHP: "Don't imagine you're Facebook. You'd be lucky to be Myspace." If your tradeoff analysis suggests PHP is the right choice, so be it. But comparing oneself to Facebook suggests commitment to irrationality and monkey-see-monkey-do. It'd be more reasonable to evaluate PHP in terms of tool quality, but that's too much to ask for in the tech industry.
  - lpolovets 12y ago
    (I'm the author of the CodingVC post.) I fully agree with you. Facebook is also a heavy PHP user, and that's the biggest startup IPO of the last decade. PHP can definitely be used at a great company -- the data simply showed that the better the company, the less likely it was to be using PHP.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- hnriot 12y ago
  A programming language is just a tool, it's architecture and design that matter. A competent developer can write a great product in PHP, many have done so. The negative correlation is trivially explained, the startup world is like a big fashion show.
WoodenChair 12y ago
It's infuriating that this blog post doesn't have an easy to find date: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8312867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8312867
shaded2 12y ago
I quickly browsed the article and I'm not sure how they defined quality. To answer the original question I'd say pick what you're familiar with or what you can easily hire for in your location.

by nwenzel 12y ago

cageface 12y ago

Love this bit: The likelihood that PHP is being used is strongly anti-correlated with company quality.

dennybritz 12y ago
But... Correlation != Causation. I think the causal effect works more like this: People in the startup scene (and particularly in SV) are unlikely to pick PHP as the language of their choice -> Not many PHP companies started by experienced entrepreneurs -> Lower quality. The fact that PHP is correlated with lower startup quality (whatever that means) has probably nothing to do with PHP itself. If you forced all the smart people to use PHP, their companies would probably work out just as well.
- rch 12y ago
  I was with you until the last line. Forcing really smart people to take a project in a direction they are fundamentally opposed to is suboptimal, at least.
  - dennybritz 12y ago
    I think you misinterpreted was I was trying to say. I didn't mean you should force people to use PHP (obviously that would be suboptimal) , but that the choice of technology has generally little to do with startup success. People who can execute well in terms of distribution and product can do so using any technology. It's just that this group of people is less likely to choose PHP for their projects because of cultural circumstances (SV, press, peers, etc).
troymc 12y ago
Unless you're Automattic (Wordpress.com). Or Acquia (Drupal). "Acquia… today announced that its co-founder Dries Buytaert was named CTO of the Year at the 2014 MassTLC Leadership Awards, hosted by the Massachusetts Technology Leadership Council. Acquia led all companies with four finalists at this year’s awards…" [1] Those examples show that PHP can be used, in a core way, by great technology companies. [1] http://www.acquia.com/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/dries-buytaert-named-cto-year-massachusetts-technology-leadership http://www.acquia.com/about-us/newsroom/press-releases/dries...
- jayzalowitz 12y ago
  Mailchimp? Facebook? Saying php cant be used at a good startup is a bit like saying you can't start a good company over 35.
  - britknight 12y ago
    Correlation in not a death sentence. No one is saying it can't be used, merely making a observation based on the gathered statistics.
- calibraxis 12y ago
  Personally, I think you can be suboptimal in all sorts of ways which cost you, yet nevertheless succeed. Though one problem: people use a tiny percentage of successful companies to justify their mistakes. One ad company manager told me, "Well Doubleclick's UI was slow!" But the obvious retort, if I thought he'd listen: "You're not at Doubleclick, are you? No, your company's failing miserably. Same with PHP: "Don't imagine you're Facebook. You'd be lucky to be Myspace." If your tradeoff analysis suggests PHP is the right choice, so be it. But comparing oneself to Facebook suggests commitment to irrationality and monkey-see-monkey-do. It'd be more reasonable to evaluate PHP in terms of tool quality, but that's too much to ask for in the tech industry.
- lpolovets 12y ago
  (I'm the author of the CodingVC post.) I fully agree with you. Facebook is also a heavy PHP user, and that's the biggest startup IPO of the last decade. PHP can definitely be used at a great company -- the data simply showed that the better the company, the less likely it was to be using PHP.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
hnriot 12y ago
A programming language is just a tool, it's architecture and design that matter. A competent developer can write a great product in PHP, many have done so. The negative correlation is trivially explained, the startup world is like a big fashion show.

WoodenChair 12y ago

It's infuriating that this blog post doesn't have an easy to find date: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8312867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8312867

shaded2 12y ago

I quickly browsed the article and I'm not sure how they defined quality. To answer the original question I'd say pick what you're familiar with or what you can easily hire for in your location.