4 ms·

You should ask the poster for clarity, not downvote his post. He stated his opinion and his reason for it. That post deserves to been read, not buried.

allegory 12y ago
Thanks but that appears to be the opposite of how it works when being critical of drug consumption. Check all the posts I made on it and how they have been downvoted. It's a travesty that rational discussion is impossible.
- thatswrong0 12y ago
  > It's a travesty that rational discussion is impossible. It's difficult when you are entirely dismissive of an idea because of a few bad personal experiences. Literally, there is nothing else to your argument besides that. That is neither compelling nor rational. Furthermore, upon the shaky basis of your beliefs, you want drug use to be forbidden for everyone. Take away the rights of everyone because of a few bad apples.. if you're going to do that, you better present some VERY compelling evidence. You have presented none. Not only that, but you have ignored the positive effects of drug decriminalization. Portugal was pointed out - nothing from you. Portugal has seen a decrease in new HIV cases, fewer overdoses, and a large uptick in people seeking drug treatment. And at the end of the day, you're not going to stop people from using drugs. Keeping them illegal doesn't seem to work. Keeping them illegal means people will get bunk drugs, a danger it it's own. Keeping them illegal forces drug users to buy from drug dealers, the chain eventually leading back to drug cartels and violence; if drugs were legal, less money would make its way back to cartels. In the United States, the war on drugs aka prohibition costs a ton of money, puts a ton of people needlessly in prison, and we still have a ton of addicts. It's a lose-lose-lose situation. On the issue of mushrooms (since opiate addiction is a much different problem), the only thing I'm hearing from you is that ONE guy had his life spiral out of control because of mushrooms. Have you even considered the number of people that mushrooms has helped? I could point to plenty of anecdotes of people who self-treated their depression with psychedelic drugs and were quite successful at it.
  - allegory 12y ago
    Ok let's take this to hand then and write a rational reply. Every one of us can answer individually only with anecdotes, other than my wife who spent the best part of a decade dealing with drug addicts. They in turn dealt with the police who deal with the problem at the source. There are very few cases of "healthy" drug use, if any out there, at least in the UK as it stands. Yes I do indeed want drugs to remain forbidden for everyone because the population is generally irresponsible and illogical and will quite happily smoke, drink and destroy each other. That's just the human race; at least 25% of it is self-destructive and the rest of us really want to protect our position. There's nothing wrong wit that. If the Westborough Baptist Church moved in next door, you'd be pissed off right? Well I don't really want my taxes taken and applied to addiction care or rehabilitation that is unnecessary. I want it to be applied to general healthcare to help me through my life. I'm entitled to think that and vote for it - that's a democracy. Regarding Portugal, that's quoted a lot but the fact is, if you read into it that they haven't legalised drugs at all. They have introduced possession limits at which point you are prosecuted. Selling drugs is still illegal. That's not blanket legalisation - that's a soundbite used by the pro-drug lobby, so stop quoting that horse shit. For reference, HN decided I'd posted too much otherwise I'd have replied directly. Mushrooms may have helped people but that's where recreational drug use and the medical sciences diverge. Anecdotes from the former and studies from the latter so it's little hypocritical saying what I'm saying is an anecdote and ending on one. I have no problem with medical research being done and former recreational drugs being provided but only after someone has done an unbiased medical study and trialled it to the same standards as other medicines.
    - thatswrong0 12y ago
      > Every one of us can answer individually only with anecdotes Scientific studies as well. > They in turn dealt with the police who deal with the problem at the source. In the United States, this is not the case at all. The police go after black people disproportionately when white people consume drugs at pretty much the same rate. > There are very few cases of "healthy" drug use, if any out there, at least in the UK as it stands. No basis/evidence for this belief. > Well I don't really want my taxes taken and applied to addiction care or rehabilitation that is unnecessary. Have you considered the possibility that it might be cheaper in the long run to legalize drugs? > Regarding Portugal, that's quoted a lot but the fact is, if you read into it that they haven't legalised drugs at all. I specifically said "decriminalization". > They have introduced possession limits at which point you are prosecuted. Selling drugs is still illegal. That's not blanket legalisation - that's a soundbite used by the pro-drug lobby, so stop quoting that horse shit. I thought you were writing a rational reply? I nowhere mentioned that Portugal legalized drugs. Decriminalization is, however, a step towards legalization. And I am going to quote that "horse shit" because, even though it is contrary to your worldview, decriminalization produced many positive effects: http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/23/portugals-drug-experience-new-study-confirms-decriminalization-was-a-success/ http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/23/portugals-drug-experie.... "... less teen drug use, fewer HIV infections, fewer AIDS cases and more drugs seized by law enforcement. Adult drug use rates did slightly increase — but this increase was not greater than that seen in nearby countries that did not change their drug policies. The use of drugs by injection declined." But that's just horse shit, right? > Anecdotes from the former and studies from the latter so it's little hypocritical saying what I'm saying is an anecdote and ending on one. I'm not using anecdotes as the basis for argument for/against drug legalization. I was pointing it out for you to consider since you are.
- beedogs 12y ago
  "It's a travesty that rational discussion is impossible." You'd have to offer some first. All I see is hysterical ranting coupled with bog-standard downvote whinging.
- hmsimha 12y ago
  You're being downvoted because you're hitting nerves (including mine). Same as if you were to say my uncle was beaten up by a gay person, so homosexuality should be banned. I realize this isn't a fair comparison, but it works as another example of a statement that would offend people by suggesting their basic human rights be revoked (as is the current state of drug prohibition). Why is it anyone's right to impose rules on other peoples' bodies? Alcohol leads to plenty of crimes, but look how prohibition worked out? Also, in the case of your friend who had schizophrenia triggered, does your friend know that the drug they were taking was what they believed it to be? Likely not. Another side effect of drug prohibition is that it leaves no place for quality control in the underground drugs market.
drewblaisdell 12y ago
The conversation needs clarity, not his post. His post was clear, but completely irrelevant to the conversation. Its claim that the "pro-drug crowds" downvoted him was also hostile and inaccurate. It deserved to be buried.

allegory 12y ago

Thanks but that appears to be the opposite of how it works when being critical of drug consumption. Check all the posts I made on it and how they have been downvoted. It's a travesty that rational discussion is impossible.

thatswrong0 12y ago
> It's a travesty that rational discussion is impossible. It's difficult when you are entirely dismissive of an idea because of a few bad personal experiences. Literally, there is nothing else to your argument besides that. That is neither compelling nor rational. Furthermore, upon the shaky basis of your beliefs, you want drug use to be forbidden for everyone. Take away the rights of everyone because of a few bad apples.. if you're going to do that, you better present some VERY compelling evidence. You have presented none. Not only that, but you have ignored the positive effects of drug decriminalization. Portugal was pointed out - nothing from you. Portugal has seen a decrease in new HIV cases, fewer overdoses, and a large uptick in people seeking drug treatment. And at the end of the day, you're not going to stop people from using drugs. Keeping them illegal doesn't seem to work. Keeping them illegal means people will get bunk drugs, a danger it it's own. Keeping them illegal forces drug users to buy from drug dealers, the chain eventually leading back to drug cartels and violence; if drugs were legal, less money would make its way back to cartels. In the United States, the war on drugs aka prohibition costs a ton of money, puts a ton of people needlessly in prison, and we still have a ton of addicts. It's a lose-lose-lose situation. On the issue of mushrooms (since opiate addiction is a much different problem), the only thing I'm hearing from you is that ONE guy had his life spiral out of control because of mushrooms. Have you even considered the number of people that mushrooms has helped? I could point to plenty of anecdotes of people who self-treated their depression with psychedelic drugs and were quite successful at it.
- allegory 12y ago
  Ok let's take this to hand then and write a rational reply. Every one of us can answer individually only with anecdotes, other than my wife who spent the best part of a decade dealing with drug addicts. They in turn dealt with the police who deal with the problem at the source. There are very few cases of "healthy" drug use, if any out there, at least in the UK as it stands. Yes I do indeed want drugs to remain forbidden for everyone because the population is generally irresponsible and illogical and will quite happily smoke, drink and destroy each other. That's just the human race; at least 25% of it is self-destructive and the rest of us really want to protect our position. There's nothing wrong wit that. If the Westborough Baptist Church moved in next door, you'd be pissed off right? Well I don't really want my taxes taken and applied to addiction care or rehabilitation that is unnecessary. I want it to be applied to general healthcare to help me through my life. I'm entitled to think that and vote for it - that's a democracy. Regarding Portugal, that's quoted a lot but the fact is, if you read into it that they haven't legalised drugs at all. They have introduced possession limits at which point you are prosecuted. Selling drugs is still illegal. That's not blanket legalisation - that's a soundbite used by the pro-drug lobby, so stop quoting that horse shit. For reference, HN decided I'd posted too much otherwise I'd have replied directly. Mushrooms may have helped people but that's where recreational drug use and the medical sciences diverge. Anecdotes from the former and studies from the latter so it's little hypocritical saying what I'm saying is an anecdote and ending on one. I have no problem with medical research being done and former recreational drugs being provided but only after someone has done an unbiased medical study and trialled it to the same standards as other medicines.
  - thatswrong0 12y ago
    > Every one of us can answer individually only with anecdotes Scientific studies as well. > They in turn dealt with the police who deal with the problem at the source. In the United States, this is not the case at all. The police go after black people disproportionately when white people consume drugs at pretty much the same rate. > There are very few cases of "healthy" drug use, if any out there, at least in the UK as it stands. No basis/evidence for this belief. > Well I don't really want my taxes taken and applied to addiction care or rehabilitation that is unnecessary. Have you considered the possibility that it might be cheaper in the long run to legalize drugs? > Regarding Portugal, that's quoted a lot but the fact is, if you read into it that they haven't legalised drugs at all. I specifically said "decriminalization". > They have introduced possession limits at which point you are prosecuted. Selling drugs is still illegal. That's not blanket legalisation - that's a soundbite used by the pro-drug lobby, so stop quoting that horse shit. I thought you were writing a rational reply? I nowhere mentioned that Portugal legalized drugs. Decriminalization is, however, a step towards legalization. And I am going to quote that "horse shit" because, even though it is contrary to your worldview, decriminalization produced many positive effects: http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/23/portugals-drug-experience-new-study-confirms-decriminalization-was-a-success/ http://healthland.time.com/2010/11/23/portugals-drug-experie.... "... less teen drug use, fewer HIV infections, fewer AIDS cases and more drugs seized by law enforcement. Adult drug use rates did slightly increase — but this increase was not greater than that seen in nearby countries that did not change their drug policies. The use of drugs by injection declined." But that's just horse shit, right? > Anecdotes from the former and studies from the latter so it's little hypocritical saying what I'm saying is an anecdote and ending on one. I'm not using anecdotes as the basis for argument for/against drug legalization. I was pointing it out for you to consider since you are.
beedogs 12y ago
"It's a travesty that rational discussion is impossible." You'd have to offer some first. All I see is hysterical ranting coupled with bog-standard downvote whinging.
hmsimha 12y ago
You're being downvoted because you're hitting nerves (including mine). Same as if you were to say my uncle was beaten up by a gay person, so homosexuality should be banned. I realize this isn't a fair comparison, but it works as another example of a statement that would offend people by suggesting their basic human rights be revoked (as is the current state of drug prohibition). Why is it anyone's right to impose rules on other peoples' bodies? Alcohol leads to plenty of crimes, but look how prohibition worked out? Also, in the case of your friend who had schizophrenia triggered, does your friend know that the drug they were taking was what they believed it to be? Likely not. Another side effect of drug prohibition is that it leaves no place for quality control in the underground drugs market.

drewblaisdell 12y ago

The conversation needs clarity, not his post. His post was clear, but completely irrelevant to the conversation. Its claim that the "pro-drug crowds" downvoted him was also hostile and inaccurate. It deserved to be buried.