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It's not a question of how much AT&T has to lose, it's a question of what Apple has to gain. Here, yes, AT&T has something to lose if the app is allowed. Mayb

by idm 17y ago

It's not a question of how much AT&T has to lose, it's a question of what Apple has to gain. Here, yes, AT&T has something to lose if the app is allowed. Maybe it's not much, but it's something. What does Apple have to gain by denying this app? In fact, they're the _only_ ones who have anything at all to lose by taking such action. EDIT: good points in reply to this... (I can't reply any deeper in the thread, so I'll just acknowledge it here)

robotron 17y ago
What does AT&T have to lose since they allow this on other phones on their network? How many times do people need to be reminded of this fact?
wvenable 17y ago
AT&T already allows Google Voice on other phones. I find it fascinating that so many people continue to blame AT&T well after it's very clear that they had nothing to do with it. They just can't imagine that their poor little underdog Apple would limit competition on their device. Apple has a lot to lose if this app is allowed. Search and maps is already provided by Google. Add in call management, voice mail, and SMS and you have a phone almost completely powered by Google software -- that's not a position that Apple wants to be in! Their excuse of "duplicate functionality" really is an honest answer. Remember, they also denied Latitude.
- pyre 17y ago
  > AT&T already allows Google Voice on other phones. I'm not too 'up' on the state of cellphones on AT&Ts network, but how many of these cellphones even give AT&T the ability to ban a specific app? How many of these phones allow their owners to install apps from a 3rd party (i.e. an 'app store' is not the only source of software)? I'm not saying that AT&T is at fault here, but the argument that AT&T has other phones that they 'allow' to use Google Voice on, is a bit far from the truth (i.e. iPhone is one of the only phones that AT&T would have the ability to 'ban' an app on). > They just can't imagine that their poor little underdog Apple would limit competition on their device. That's not necessarily the case. There are a lot of people that are part of this 'discussion' (I'm not talking just the discussion on Hacker News) who hate both Apple and AT&T. Some people want to see this as proof that both companies are evil. Please don't get bend out of shape over the Apple apologists. Though they are loud, they are a minority.
  - wvenable 17y ago
    > how many of these cellphones even give AT&T the ability to ban a specific app? If AT&T wanted to block Google Voice, they could easily do it from the network level. > iPhone is one of the only phones that AT&T would have the ability to 'ban' an app on The assumption here is that AT&T some measure of control but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of that. Wasn't the entire deal with AT&T that Apple maintains all the control? That's why there isn't a T-mobile iPhone instead. We know of the contract stipulation from AT&T that requires Apple prevent high-traffic applications and VoIP but that seems to be it. Apple seems to more than willing to take all the responsibility -- why should anyone assume differently?
mcantelon 17y ago
What does AT&T gain from Apple rejecting the Latitude app?
- chris24 17y ago
  More users of Loopt, perhaps? They make some money off of that: http://www.wireless.att.com/source/connect/loopt/ http://www.wireless.att.com/source/connect/loopt/
jhancock 17y ago
I'm guessing AT&T's loss would be in allowing a toehold on number portability. Your current choice is: work hard to get sucky_cell_provider_X move your number to sucky_cell_provider_Y. The process isn't transparent to most consumers. Google comes in as proving a free value add service that also aids the process of number portability. Once this happens to a large enough user base, there should be losses and price pressure to the provider as there becomes more options for the consumer. This route is not what AT&T or any provider wants.
- pyre 17y ago
  This is what any industry doesn't want. With Google providing a 'front-end' to your telephone service the actual providers like AT&T become a commodity. No industry wants their product to become a commodity.
  - jhancock 17y ago
    exactly. Commoditization happens and we should remove some barriers that keep it from happening. I beleive that things becoming commodity and becoming subsumed into our social/economic fabric are critical to evolution.
- AlisdairO 17y ago
  Is there no number portability in the US?
  - jhancock 17y ago
    There is now, but barely. The vast majority of cell users don't know about it and most people I have talked to that moved their number said it wasn't that easy. Google may both make it easier and certainly raise awareness.

by idm 17y ago

robotron 17y ago

What does AT&T have to lose since they allow this on other phones on their network? How many times do people need to be reminded of this fact?

wvenable 17y ago

AT&T already allows Google Voice on other phones. I find it fascinating that so many people continue to blame AT&T well after it's very clear that they had nothing to do with it. They just can't imagine that their poor little underdog Apple would limit competition on their device. Apple has a lot to lose if this app is allowed. Search and maps is already provided by Google. Add in call management, voice mail, and SMS and you have a phone almost completely powered by Google software -- that's not a position that Apple wants to be in! Their excuse of "duplicate functionality" really is an honest answer. Remember, they also denied Latitude.

pyre 17y ago
> AT&T already allows Google Voice on other phones. I'm not too 'up' on the state of cellphones on AT&Ts network, but how many of these cellphones even give AT&T the ability to ban a specific app? How many of these phones allow their owners to install apps from a 3rd party (i.e. an 'app store' is not the only source of software)? I'm not saying that AT&T is at fault here, but the argument that AT&T has other phones that they 'allow' to use Google Voice on, is a bit far from the truth (i.e. iPhone is one of the only phones that AT&T would have the ability to 'ban' an app on). > They just can't imagine that their poor little underdog Apple would limit competition on their device. That's not necessarily the case. There are a lot of people that are part of this 'discussion' (I'm not talking just the discussion on Hacker News) who hate both Apple and AT&T. Some people want to see this as proof that both companies are evil. Please don't get bend out of shape over the Apple apologists. Though they are loud, they are a minority.
- wvenable 17y ago
  > how many of these cellphones even give AT&T the ability to ban a specific app? If AT&T wanted to block Google Voice, they could easily do it from the network level. > iPhone is one of the only phones that AT&T would have the ability to 'ban' an app on The assumption here is that AT&T some measure of control but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of that. Wasn't the entire deal with AT&T that Apple maintains all the control? That's why there isn't a T-mobile iPhone instead. We know of the contract stipulation from AT&T that requires Apple prevent high-traffic applications and VoIP but that seems to be it. Apple seems to more than willing to take all the responsibility -- why should anyone assume differently?

mcantelon 17y ago

What does AT&T gain from Apple rejecting the Latitude app?

chris24 17y ago
More users of Loopt, perhaps? They make some money off of that: http://www.wireless.att.com/source/connect/loopt/ http://www.wireless.att.com/source/connect/loopt/

jhancock 17y ago

I'm guessing AT&T's loss would be in allowing a toehold on number portability. Your current choice is: work hard to get sucky_cell_provider_X move your number to sucky_cell_provider_Y. The process isn't transparent to most consumers. Google comes in as proving a free value add service that also aids the process of number portability. Once this happens to a large enough user base, there should be losses and price pressure to the provider as there becomes more options for the consumer. This route is not what AT&T or any provider wants.

pyre 17y ago
This is what any industry doesn't want. With Google providing a 'front-end' to your telephone service the actual providers like AT&T become a commodity. No industry wants their product to become a commodity.
- jhancock 17y ago
  exactly. Commoditization happens and we should remove some barriers that keep it from happening. I beleive that things becoming commodity and becoming subsumed into our social/economic fabric are critical to evolution.
AlisdairO 17y ago
Is there no number portability in the US?
- jhancock 17y ago
  There is now, but barely. The vast majority of cell users don't know about it and most people I have talked to that moved their number said it wasn't that easy. Google may both make it easier and certainly raise awareness.