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True. I wonder if he realizes that he just made an argument for professionalization (or, worse, unionization) of software engineers. My guess is that he'd not
by michaelochurch 12y ago
True.
I wonder if he realizes that he just made an argument for professionalization (or, worse, unionization) of software engineers. My guess is that he'd not like that can of worms. But it's open.
Doing typical corporate programming, the stuff that any CommodityJavaDrone can do, is for losers. I'm not sure that managing that kind of work (which is the only way to make money in that world) is less loser-like.
Right now, the less-savvy (or cornered) programmers do what their bosses ask them to do. The savvy programmers chase high-quality experience, read esoteric papers on company time, and only seriously work on the 10% of in-company projects that will help their careers.
This arrangement is anarchic but there are always enough people who are cornered (family/financial pressures) and can be pushed into taking the less-savvy path and doing what they're told. And the personal-brand-definers have more fun and may get promoted faster early on, or get to strike out as consultants, but they're unlikely to get seriously rich (500k+) as they would if, you know, programmers were actually paid what they're worth. So the VCs and corporate executives and (to a lesser degree) software managers still make out like bandits.
What if that changed, though? What if programmers collectively realized that we had allowed ourselves to be commoditized and were overcompeting and losing all over the place?
Since I've been grappling with this issue for years, here's some further reading from my blog:
[1] What’s a mid-career software engineer actually worth? Try $779,000 per year as a lower bound. ( http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/whats-a-mid-career-software-engineer-actually-worth-try-779000-per-year-as-a-lower-bound/ http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/05/24/whats-a-mid-c... )
[2] Why programmers can't make any money: dimensionality and the Eternal Haskell Tax.
( http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/why-programmers-cant-make-any-money-dimensionality-and-the-eternal-haskell-tax/ http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/06/06/why-programme... )
[3] Programmer autonomy is a $1 trillion issue. ( http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/11/25/programmer-autonomy-is-a-1-trillion-issue/ http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/11/25/programmer-au... )
[4] How the Other Half Works: An Adventure in the Low Status of Software Engineers. ( http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/07/13/how-the-other-half-works-an-adventure-in-the-low-status-of-software-engineers/ http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2014/07/13/how-the-other... )
- S4M 12y agoCan you explain what Thiel's article has to do with professionalizaton or unionizaton of software engineers? Thiel's thesis here is that you need to innovate to hold an at least temporary monopoly on something (you have the monopoly because you're the only one in the market yet), it has nothing to do with what you mention.
- kyllo 12y agoSelling one's labor as an individual is competition, which Thiel says is "for losers." Unionizing and practicing collective bargaining is effectively forming a monopoly in the market for a particular type of labor--at least if you can get a critical mass of workers to join your union.
- bokonist 12y agoIf you think a programmers union should exist, why don't you go ahead and start it? Judging from your history of Hacker News comments, this seems like one of your major life passions. So if you really believe in it, why not do it?
- dragonwriter 12y ago> If you think a programmers union should exist, why don't you go ahead and start it? One reason might be that such unions already exist, e.g., http://www.iww.org/unions/dept500/iu560 http://www.iww.org/unions/dept500/iu560