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Being fashionable also advertises that you are something of a worthless shit who doesn't have any better use for his time; see PG's essay "Why Nerds Are Unpopul

Being fashionable also advertises that you are something of a worthless shit who doesn't have any better use for his time; see PG's essay "Why Nerds Are Unpopular" http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html

unalone 17y ago
Funny that you call fashionable people worthless shits while citing the essay that's used most to point out that lots of nerds are worthless shits. I don't see the point in denigrating people's passions, Bill. Paul Graham likes programming and making money. Not everybody does. Other people like to write music. Others, buying attractive clothing and learning how to look good. These things aren't inherently better than one another unless you want to buy into a specific social idea, and then we aren't required to go along with you. The one thing I do detest are people with persecution complexes. Nerds are frequently unpopular because they insist so passionately how unpopular they are. That's unpleasant and leads to people not liking them. As I've discovered, if you talk to people about designing web sites and programming innovations, they'll still like you. You've got to understand going in what other people will be interested in and what nobody gives a fuck about, and that some people will never care, but if you know that going in, you can make delightful friends even with non-nerds. The other problem is that some nerds know nothing but one specific thing, and they look down on everything else, so nobody likes them. There are people who know nothing but fashion, too, though they're rare and they're just as unpopular as nerds.
- billswift 17y ago
  Praising or even respecting "passion" is a stupid pop-psych thing to do. Passion is worthless except to the extent that it motivates you to provide value to society. Or do you and the ??s that voted you up somehow think that passion excuses or justifies serial killers and Adolf Hitler and other historical and real world excesses.
  - olliesaunders 17y ago
    Your tone isn't doing you any favours but you actually make a good point. I was tempted to argue that providing "value to society" is always good but what you really mean to say is not that passion leads to "value" (there's no guarantee of that) but that passion leads to the motivation to act and the desire to have an effect somehow. Whether that will be good or bad is unknown, often irrespective of intentions, and can only be evaluated through value-judgement. If that's your belief, currently, I can't fault it.
potatolicious 17y ago
Being fashionable gets you places. I used to be a shorts and t-shirt - stereotypical software engineer look. I just didn't really care enough to wear anything except whatever was comfy. Then I was given a really nice dinner jacket for Christmas, tailored and fitted and all. I felt like a new man wearing it. Since then I've spent considerably more time (though honestly not that much) thinking about what I wear, and I'm still in the process of replacing my disgusting t-shirt-and-shorts wardrobe with something better. News flash: it fucking works. I feel more confident, the clothes no longer hang off me like rags, they ARE more comfortable, and for the first time in my life women are hitting on me. If you don't care how you look, don't come crying when people judge you based on how you look. After all, you don't care right?
- unalone 17y ago
  Out of curiosity: What places have you been going now that you're looking for clothes? I'm where you were last year, and am a bit clueless as to where to purchase things. (Hopefully this isn't too much of a conversational tangent.)
  - potatolicious 17y ago
    The same places everyone else goes, actually. Macy's, the Gap, Nordstrom, AE, etc etc. Many of these mass manufacturers make great stuff - but the effect of their products can be greatly enhanced by getting it fitted by a tailor. Since my route home after work passes through the transit hub under the downtown shopping core, I've taken the habit of just randomly perusing clothing stores on my way home. I do this about once a week - it keeps your eyes sharp for particularly interesting pieces of clothing that isn't just "yet another collared shirt".
billswift 17y ago
There is nothing wrong with dressing and grooming well. The essay talks about people who spend substantial time and energy at fashion, at projecting an image. there are only two things really worth spending time on: 1) family and friends, and 2) your work, that is what you contribute to society. The second is helped by good grooming, neither is helped by being "fashionable" (unless your work is mostly image, like acting or other entertaining). And the essay by PG is relevant because it points out that nerds are unpopular because they have more valuable things to do with their time than suck up. The "in crowd" spends effectively all its time sucking up to each other, and shutting out everybody worthwhile.

unalone 17y ago

Funny that you call fashionable people worthless shits while citing the essay that's used most to point out that lots of nerds are worthless shits. I don't see the point in denigrating people's passions, Bill. Paul Graham likes programming and making money. Not everybody does. Other people like to write music. Others, buying attractive clothing and learning how to look good. These things aren't inherently better than one another unless you want to buy into a specific social idea, and then we aren't required to go along with you. The one thing I do detest are people with persecution complexes. Nerds are frequently unpopular because they insist so passionately how unpopular they are. That's unpleasant and leads to people not liking them. As I've discovered, if you talk to people about designing web sites and programming innovations, they'll still like you. You've got to understand going in what other people will be interested in and what nobody gives a fuck about, and that some people will never care, but if you know that going in, you can make delightful friends even with non-nerds. The other problem is that some nerds know nothing but one specific thing, and they look down on everything else, so nobody likes them. There are people who know nothing but fashion, too, though they're rare and they're just as unpopular as nerds.

billswift 17y ago
Praising or even respecting "passion" is a stupid pop-psych thing to do. Passion is worthless except to the extent that it motivates you to provide value to society. Or do you and the ??s that voted you up somehow think that passion excuses or justifies serial killers and Adolf Hitler and other historical and real world excesses.
- olliesaunders 17y ago
  Your tone isn't doing you any favours but you actually make a good point. I was tempted to argue that providing "value to society" is always good but what you really mean to say is not that passion leads to "value" (there's no guarantee of that) but that passion leads to the motivation to act and the desire to have an effect somehow. Whether that will be good or bad is unknown, often irrespective of intentions, and can only be evaluated through value-judgement. If that's your belief, currently, I can't fault it.

potatolicious 17y ago

Being fashionable gets you places. I used to be a shorts and t-shirt - stereotypical software engineer look. I just didn't really care enough to wear anything except whatever was comfy. Then I was given a really nice dinner jacket for Christmas, tailored and fitted and all. I felt like a new man wearing it. Since then I've spent considerably more time (though honestly not that much) thinking about what I wear, and I'm still in the process of replacing my disgusting t-shirt-and-shorts wardrobe with something better. News flash: it fucking works. I feel more confident, the clothes no longer hang off me like rags, they ARE more comfortable, and for the first time in my life women are hitting on me. If you don't care how you look, don't come crying when people judge you based on how you look. After all, you don't care right?

unalone 17y ago
Out of curiosity: What places have you been going now that you're looking for clothes? I'm where you were last year, and am a bit clueless as to where to purchase things. (Hopefully this isn't too much of a conversational tangent.)
- potatolicious 17y ago
  The same places everyone else goes, actually. Macy's, the Gap, Nordstrom, AE, etc etc. Many of these mass manufacturers make great stuff - but the effect of their products can be greatly enhanced by getting it fitted by a tailor. Since my route home after work passes through the transit hub under the downtown shopping core, I've taken the habit of just randomly perusing clothing stores on my way home. I do this about once a week - it keeps your eyes sharp for particularly interesting pieces of clothing that isn't just "yet another collared shirt".

billswift 17y ago

There is nothing wrong with dressing and grooming well. The essay talks about people who spend substantial time and energy at fashion, at projecting an image. there are only two things really worth spending time on: 1) family and friends, and 2) your work, that is what you contribute to society. The second is helped by good grooming, neither is helped by being "fashionable" (unless your work is mostly image, like acting or other entertaining). And the essay by PG is relevant because it points out that nerds are unpopular because they have more valuable things to do with their time than suck up. The "in crowd" spends effectively all its time sucking up to each other, and shutting out everybody worthwhile.