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fnid says: "the big problem to me is that people think somehow humans are distinct and unique {and _above_ all other life forms). That consciousness begins and
by giardini 17y ago
fnid says:
"the big problem to me is that people think somehow humans are distinct and unique {and _above_ all other life forms). That consciousness begins and ends in homo sapiens."
But except for the part I bracketed, the above is pretty much true. There is little evidence of self-awareness in other animals and certainly nothing like what humans display. Along with that, our language ability is unique (Sure I know about signing apes, dolphins, African parrots, et al, wherein minimal language abilities are present).
No doubt that animals have emotions. But consciousness? No. Animals other than man live in the "here and now". Other than following genetically-programmed patterns, they neither plan for the future nor reminisce about the past as we do. And that is just fine: that's all they apparently need.
Some unique situation (I have no idea what ) must have occurred in man's history for the ability to think outside of the "here and now" to develop.
About the bracketed part: I would omit it because I don't think that there is any design where man has any inherently "higher" role/purpose/goal than other animals.
- a-priori 17y agoAnimals other than man live in the "here and now". That's a very strong claim. Care to back it up, especially in light of the linked article?
- giardini 17y agoThe experiment interprets the dolphin's hesitation as "metacognition". But most animals will hesitate and equivocate their action under the right circumstances. Certainly all mammals. Give your dog a treat. When he takes it, immediately pop him on the nose. Offer another treat. If he takes it, pop him harder on the nose. Keep going until he hesitates. Voila, "metacognition"! (Unless you have a pit bull, in which case you may have difficulty reaching the metacognitive level). And the second question: does this equation hold: "metacognition" = "human consciousness".
- TrevorJ 17y agoThe language examples you gave deal with communicating with us. Animals have been shown to communicate with each other as well, and we don't yet know how complex those communications may be. Also, apes do exhibit evidence of a concept of 'self'.
- giardini 17y agoAnimal communications is limited to survival calls(warning cries), mating and social signals(which include status signals). Ape communication is very much "here and now", especially the signing apes: "Mary want banana, Mary want banana, banana, banana, give Mary banana..." etc. Apes do have some sense of self, but it is far from human consciousness.
- TrevorJ 17y agoI would disagree regarding the great apes. You are correct, it may be far from Human. We are in agreement there, however great apes have shown evidence of planning, remorse and anger that goes beyond the here and now.
- scott_s 17y agoThe article describes an experiment where dolphins demonstrate a measure of self-awareness. In happens in the form that they demonstrate hesitancy in decisions, which implies knowing that their decision may be wrong.
- qqqqq5 17y agoWhat about the chimp who would gather rocks when the zoo was closed to throw at visitors the next day? http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article5877764.ece http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/science/article5877764...
- giardini 17y agoIs that any different from the crocodile who waits quietly by the riverbank until the gazelles come to drink? Chimps also will hunt in packs and use spear-like tools. But neither behavior resembles human consciousness. A person as bright as that chimp would at best be in an institution.