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I don't think he means that Israel is pulling the strings -- but that is debatable (see AIPAC). I think what he is saying is that the fascist governments and c

by yamayb 12y ago

I don't think he means that Israel is pulling the strings -- but that is debatable (see AIPAC). I think what he is saying is that the fascist governments and capabilities of Israel and the U.S. would have been envied by Nazi germany. Maybe he has a point. Just consider the recent round of violence (to put it lightly, some might call it ethnic cleansing) in gaza. Now consider the success of dehumanizing the palestinians to the point where nobody in the world -- not even the arab nations took significant diplomatic action against Israeli aggression. Consider that in context of the scale of destruction of civilian infrastructure and the rate of civilian casualties. Huge propaganda success. All in this day and age of twitter/fb despite near total destruction of Gaza and overwhelming deaths of civilians. How many countries outside of south america recalled ambassadors? How much divestment? How many canceled contracts gas/weapons/settlement-products? Nothing significant enough to reverse Israeli actions. In the end, Israel only stopped because there was nothing left to destroy.

josefresco 12y ago
Soo the rockets fired by Hamas into Israel are ... imaginary? fabricated? - I'm not there so I haven't seen them with my own eyes, but to classify the conflict as just "Israeli aggression" seems inaccurate given what I see and read in the news. Update: Agree with smcl, disengaging ;)
- dragonwriter 12y ago
  Not agreeing with the characterization (any simplistic description of the Israel/Palestine conflict is flawed), but the existence of mutual conflict does not preclude the accuracy of the description of one side as the aggressor in a conflict.
- smcl 12y ago
  It seems pretty obvious to me that "aggression" refers to the the parent's opinion that the Israeli response to the rockets was a little heavy-handed and unwarranted. We're getting really offtopic here however, HN is not the place to spar over the Israel\Palestine conflict. There's plenty of places on the web you can engage in this if you want, but be warned that doing so will end up resolving nothing and will leave you frustrated and angry.
  - ufmace 12y ago
    I'l agree that HN isn't the best place to debate it. But if we all agree on that, why does it seem so one-sided on here? Flame-bait assertions that Israel has what the Nazis could only dream about are just fine and highly upvoted, as are vague and unjustified claims that Israel's response is heavy-handed. Meanwhile, just pointing out that the conflict is more complex than that and Israel has reasons for what they're doing too is apparently considered unacceptable off-topic debate. Is this place a Hamas propaganda site or something? Keeping out of the debate entirely is fine, but if we're doing that, let's downvote and reject posts like the ones in this thread by yamayb and jdimov that are packed with inflammatory rhetoric that has nothing to do with the original topic here.
Kalium 12y ago
Oh come on. Do you seriously believe that a modern military attempting genocide or ethnic cleansing would stop after four digits of death toll against a population of millions? That's hardly the limit of their abilities. That would be the least competent genocide in history. There are a lot of criticisms to be leveled against Israel, but accusing them of genocide doesn't pass the sniff test. That's more an ideological framing and comment on the person leveling said criticisms than it is a reflection of reality. The Nazis would be jealous of any modern state's computing power, military might, and intelligence capabilities. But so would literally any other empire in history. I mean, how jealous of modern air power would Napoleon be?

by yamayb 12y ago

josefresco 12y ago

Soo the rockets fired by Hamas into Israel are ... imaginary? fabricated? - I'm not there so I haven't seen them with my own eyes, but to classify the conflict as just "Israeli aggression" seems inaccurate given what I see and read in the news. Update: Agree with smcl, disengaging ;)

dragonwriter 12y ago
Not agreeing with the characterization (any simplistic description of the Israel/Palestine conflict is flawed), but the existence of mutual conflict does not preclude the accuracy of the description of one side as the aggressor in a conflict.
smcl 12y ago
It seems pretty obvious to me that "aggression" refers to the the parent's opinion that the Israeli response to the rockets was a little heavy-handed and unwarranted. We're getting really offtopic here however, HN is not the place to spar over the Israel\Palestine conflict. There's plenty of places on the web you can engage in this if you want, but be warned that doing so will end up resolving nothing and will leave you frustrated and angry.
- ufmace 12y ago
  I'l agree that HN isn't the best place to debate it. But if we all agree on that, why does it seem so one-sided on here? Flame-bait assertions that Israel has what the Nazis could only dream about are just fine and highly upvoted, as are vague and unjustified claims that Israel's response is heavy-handed. Meanwhile, just pointing out that the conflict is more complex than that and Israel has reasons for what they're doing too is apparently considered unacceptable off-topic debate. Is this place a Hamas propaganda site or something? Keeping out of the debate entirely is fine, but if we're doing that, let's downvote and reject posts like the ones in this thread by yamayb and jdimov that are packed with inflammatory rhetoric that has nothing to do with the original topic here.

Kalium 12y ago

Oh come on. Do you seriously believe that a modern military attempting genocide or ethnic cleansing would stop after four digits of death toll against a population of millions? That's hardly the limit of their abilities. That would be the least competent genocide in history. There are a lot of criticisms to be leveled against Israel, but accusing them of genocide doesn't pass the sniff test. That's more an ideological framing and comment on the person leveling said criticisms than it is a reflection of reality. The Nazis would be jealous of any modern state's computing power, military might, and intelligence capabilities. But so would literally any other empire in history. I mean, how jealous of modern air power would Napoleon be?