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The US and Israel now have what the Nazis could only dream about.

by jdimov 12y ago

DominikR 12y ago
I do not like how Israel is always portrayed as some thug that is pulling the strings. Israel is a small satellite state of the US in a very important region, therefore Israel is very important to the US in realizing its goals to dominate this region. Also, the comparison with Nazi Germany is wrong. The US does not have any racial ideology, it wants to dominate economically and militarily, not destroy if it doesn't have to. A government that is fascist doesn't mean automatically that it has any policies towards certain races. It just means that it gradually removes freedoms of its citizens in every sphere to excert greater control over its population. The only reason that muslims are victimized on this scale is that mostly muslims live in that region. If the region was mostly habitated by a buddhist or jewish population that isn't compliant with US demands, then buddhists or jews would be the victims.
- yamayb 12y ago
  I don't think he means that Israel is pulling the strings -- but that is debatable (see AIPAC). I think what he is saying is that the fascist governments and capabilities of Israel and the U.S. would have been envied by Nazi germany. Maybe he has a point. Just consider the recent round of violence (to put it lightly, some might call it ethnic cleansing) in gaza. Now consider the success of dehumanizing the palestinians to the point where nobody in the world -- not even the arab nations took significant diplomatic action against Israeli aggression. Consider that in context of the scale of destruction of civilian infrastructure and the rate of civilian casualties. Huge propaganda success. All in this day and age of twitter/fb despite near total destruction of Gaza and overwhelming deaths of civilians. How many countries outside of south america recalled ambassadors? How much divestment? How many canceled contracts gas/weapons/settlement-products? Nothing significant enough to reverse Israeli actions. In the end, Israel only stopped because there was nothing left to destroy.
  - josefresco 12y ago
    Soo the rockets fired by Hamas into Israel are ... imaginary? fabricated? - I'm not there so I haven't seen them with my own eyes, but to classify the conflict as just "Israeli aggression" seems inaccurate given what I see and read in the news. Update: Agree with smcl, disengaging ;)
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      Not agreeing with the characterization (any simplistic description of the Israel/Palestine conflict is flawed), but the existence of mutual conflict does not preclude the accuracy of the description of one side as the aggressor in a conflict.
    - smcl 12y ago
      It seems pretty obvious to me that "aggression" refers to the the parent's opinion that the Israeli response to the rockets was a little heavy-handed and unwarranted. We're getting really offtopic here however, HN is not the place to spar over the Israel\Palestine conflict. There's plenty of places on the web you can engage in this if you want, but be warned that doing so will end up resolving nothing and will leave you frustrated and angry.
      - ufmace 12y ago
        I'l agree that HN isn't the best place to debate it. But if we all agree on that, why does it seem so one-sided on here? Flame-bait assertions that Israel has what the Nazis could only dream about are just fine and highly upvoted, as are vague and unjustified claims that Israel's response is heavy-handed. Meanwhile, just pointing out that the conflict is more complex than that and Israel has reasons for what they're doing too is apparently considered unacceptable off-topic debate. Is this place a Hamas propaganda site or something? Keeping out of the debate entirely is fine, but if we're doing that, let's downvote and reject posts like the ones in this thread by yamayb and jdimov that are packed with inflammatory rhetoric that has nothing to do with the original topic here.
  - Kalium 12y ago
idlewords 12y ago
Decent jet engines! Seriously, you typed this statement and thought what? "Now we'll finally have a fruitful discussion on the hacker site"?
- jdimov 12y ago
  Frankly, I am appalled by the LACK of discussion of these topics on this hacker site. Why is there a taboo on politics? Why is it out of reach? 400 innocent children were killed indiscriminately in the span of 6 weeks in Gaza. But your vim configuration is more worthy of discussion here? Idk...
  - zimpenfish 12y ago
    I suspect it's minimised because a) politics is very much a personal thing which b) tends to explode very quickly into name-calling and sniping and c) there's already about 8 jillion political discussion places on the intertents.
    - jdimov 12y ago
      Fuck those 8 jillion blabbing places. WE are the only ones who can do something about it! WE, the hackers, the creators of our reality, the readers of this site. Those discussions belong HERE.
      - jamespo 12y ago
        Indeed, you'd better get going on your World Peace As A Service startup.
  - idlewords 12y ago
    Technical forum is technical.
  - krapp 12y ago
    People don't approach politics rationally. For instance: >400 innocent children were killed indiscriminately in the span of 6 weeks in Gaza The bias implicit in this suggests that you consider that either someone agrees with your point of view, or else they support the slaughter of innocent children. Which further suggests that what you're looking for is not discussion, but pro-Palestinian advocacy, as there is no room for discussion in your framing. And of course it's impossible for me to suggest the nature of your bias without expressing my own bias. Which is fine, if that's what you want there are other forums for such things, but that's not what most people come to Hacker News for. One-sided political discussions are not very interesting, and never fruitful.

The US and Israel now have what the Nazis could only dream about.

by jdimov 12y ago

The US and Israel now have what the Nazis could only dream about.

I do not like how Israel is always portrayed as some thug that is pulling the strings. Israel is a small satellite state of the US in a very important region, therefore Israel is very important to the US in realizing its goals to dominate this region. Also, the comparison with Nazi Germany is wrong. The US does not have any racial ideology, it wants to dominate economically and militarily, not destroy if it doesn't have to. A government that is fascist doesn't mean automatically that it has any policies towards certain races. It just means that it gradually removes freedoms of its citizens in every sphere to excert greater control over its population. The only reason that muslims are victimized on this scale is that mostly muslims live in that region. If the region was mostly habitated by a buddhist or jewish population that isn't compliant with US demands, then buddhists or jews would be the victims.

yamayb 12y ago
I don't think he means that Israel is pulling the strings -- but that is debatable (see AIPAC). I think what he is saying is that the fascist governments and capabilities of Israel and the U.S. would have been envied by Nazi germany. Maybe he has a point. Just consider the recent round of violence (to put it lightly, some might call it ethnic cleansing) in gaza. Now consider the success of dehumanizing the palestinians to the point where nobody in the world -- not even the arab nations took significant diplomatic action against Israeli aggression. Consider that in context of the scale of destruction of civilian infrastructure and the rate of civilian casualties. Huge propaganda success. All in this day and age of twitter/fb despite near total destruction of Gaza and overwhelming deaths of civilians. How many countries outside of south america recalled ambassadors? How much divestment? How many canceled contracts gas/weapons/settlement-products? Nothing significant enough to reverse Israeli actions. In the end, Israel only stopped because there was nothing left to destroy.
- josefresco 12y ago
  Soo the rockets fired by Hamas into Israel are ... imaginary? fabricated? - I'm not there so I haven't seen them with my own eyes, but to classify the conflict as just "Israeli aggression" seems inaccurate given what I see and read in the news. Update: Agree with smcl, disengaging ;)
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    Not agreeing with the characterization (any simplistic description of the Israel/Palestine conflict is flawed), but the existence of mutual conflict does not preclude the accuracy of the description of one side as the aggressor in a conflict.
  - smcl 12y ago
    It seems pretty obvious to me that "aggression" refers to the the parent's opinion that the Israeli response to the rockets was a little heavy-handed and unwarranted. We're getting really offtopic here however, HN is not the place to spar over the Israel\Palestine conflict. There's plenty of places on the web you can engage in this if you want, but be warned that doing so will end up resolving nothing and will leave you frustrated and angry.
    - ufmace 12y ago
      I'l agree that HN isn't the best place to debate it. But if we all agree on that, why does it seem so one-sided on here? Flame-bait assertions that Israel has what the Nazis could only dream about are just fine and highly upvoted, as are vague and unjustified claims that Israel's response is heavy-handed. Meanwhile, just pointing out that the conflict is more complex than that and Israel has reasons for what they're doing too is apparently considered unacceptable off-topic debate. Is this place a Hamas propaganda site or something? Keeping out of the debate entirely is fine, but if we're doing that, let's downvote and reject posts like the ones in this thread by yamayb and jdimov that are packed with inflammatory rhetoric that has nothing to do with the original topic here.
- Kalium 12y ago

idlewords 12y ago

Decent jet engines! Seriously, you typed this statement and thought what? "Now we'll finally have a fruitful discussion on the hacker site"?

jdimov 12y ago
Frankly, I am appalled by the LACK of discussion of these topics on this hacker site. Why is there a taboo on politics? Why is it out of reach? 400 innocent children were killed indiscriminately in the span of 6 weeks in Gaza. But your vim configuration is more worthy of discussion here? Idk...
- zimpenfish 12y ago
  I suspect it's minimised because a) politics is very much a personal thing which b) tends to explode very quickly into name-calling and sniping and c) there's already about 8 jillion political discussion places on the intertents.
  - jdimov 12y ago
    Fuck those 8 jillion blabbing places. WE are the only ones who can do something about it! WE, the hackers, the creators of our reality, the readers of this site. Those discussions belong HERE.
    - jamespo 12y ago
      Indeed, you'd better get going on your World Peace As A Service startup.
- idlewords 12y ago
  Technical forum is technical.
- krapp 12y ago
  People don't approach politics rationally. For instance: >400 innocent children were killed indiscriminately in the span of 6 weeks in Gaza The bias implicit in this suggests that you consider that either someone agrees with your point of view, or else they support the slaughter of innocent children. Which further suggests that what you're looking for is not discussion, but pro-Palestinian advocacy, as there is no room for discussion in your framing. And of course it's impossible for me to suggest the nature of your bias without expressing my own bias. Which is fine, if that's what you want there are other forums for such things, but that's not what most people come to Hacker News for. One-sided political discussions are not very interesting, and never fruitful.