11 ms·

it's not irrational. it's fear off lack of control for ones live. I do not know how to fly an airplane. I do not know the commander. I do know how to pilot a

by gcb 17y ago

it's not irrational. it's fear off lack of control for ones live. I do not know how to fly an airplane. I do not know the commander. I do know how to pilot a bike. I ride a bike in heavy traffic at high speeds. Despite the death rate for the bike case is higher, i crap myself on an airplane. because i'm not in control.

ulf 17y ago
This concept of control is a _very_ irrational one. Of course you steer and pedal your bike by yourself. But by taking part in traffic you give up at least as much control as flying by plane. Some guy hitting you with his car from behind is not exactly in your control.
- dimas 17y ago
  It is irrational but it shows how our mind work(what is sometime is irrational and does not always work according to statistics). On the bike you feel like you have more control because you can control one factor is yourself directing the bike and possibility avoid the accident(in your mind). On the plane you have no control in any directions. No matter what happens you are helpless and bets you can do is pray
- psnj 17y ago
  Agree. When I was getting my pilot's license, I learned to be hyper-aware of another airplane that was less than say 1000 feet from me. But the strangest part of those lessons was getting back into my car afterward and getting onto the 417, where I was a couple of feet away from other cars, also going 75mph. I was completely at these other drivers' mercy: I had effectively no time to react to them, and knew from experience that lots of drivers are just plain awful (and this was really before you'd see people driving while texting with one hand and changing their kids' DVD in the other.) It was very, very scary. Total loss of control — far more than in an airplane, where to a much greater degree if things go sideways, it was probably your fault anyway. The other interesting thing about the scary drive was how long it stayed scary: maybe ten minutes, tops. After that — business as usual. Didn't even think about it. It's interesting what we can get used to.
aaronz3 17y ago
A friend of mine flies 737s for one of the major airlines, and he once told me, "When I'm up in the air I don't give a damn about the 150 people behind me. I'm sure as hell going to take care of myself though, and if I make it through they don't have much choice but to follow me." You may not be in control, but the pilot is, and he wants to make it to his destination just as much as you do.
- harpastum 17y ago
  That reminds me of the story a couple months ago in Britain [1]: "One passenger then identified himself as a qualified aircraft engineer and offered to try to remedy the fault. He was successful, and the plane landed in Glasgow only 35 minutes late...It was reassuring to know the person who had fixed it was still on the aeroplane." Normally I'd be very worried that my plane was fixed by someone that didn't actually work for that company, but the fact that he trusted his own life to his fix would go a long way to reassuring me. [1]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1198058/Is-engineer-board-Passenger-steps-forward-fix-Thomas-Cook-passenger-jet.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1198058/Is-engineer-...
  - run4yourlives 17y ago
    In the Canadian Army, the people who re-pack parachutes for soldiers (riggers) have a similar safe guard to ensure quality. At any given time, a commander can select any particular chute that they've packed, and they have to jump using it. Needless to say the quality control is near perfect.
  - tomjen2 17y ago
    Once upon a time, the foreman on the shack that made a cannon would _sit_ on it when it was first fired (I don't think that included the cannonball, but still). The reason was that if the inside wasn't smooth, the cannon might go off.
- gcheong 17y ago
  Well, you hope so anyway. There is always the chance that your pilot is in the process of getting a divorce or losing his/her house, going bankrupt, or something and decides to hell with it all. But your friend is right, either way, the people in the back have no choice but to follow.
j_b_f 17y ago
If "lack of control" is what defines your fears, then I'd assume you'd be afraid of almost everything. Our water supply, break-ins, the government, etc. Can you ride a bus or sit in the passenger seat of a car? When you ride a bike, do you realize how easily a car could just take you out? At some point you have to look at the data and determine what's a reasonable fear and what isn't. If you maintain an unreasonable fear of a reasonably safe activity, don't try to make it appear rational by explaining it's a control issue.
- jrwoodruff 17y ago
  In most of the situations you list, we can still convince ourself we're in control. We can ditch the bike to avoid the car, drink bottled water if we think tap water is unsafe, lock our doors, jump out of the escape hatch on the bus (or grab the wheel if necessary). On a plane, you have no options, short of skydiving without a parachute. You pretty much hand complete control, and more importantly, any illusion of control, over to the pilot. The point here is most fear is irrational. Also, the illusion of control is just that.
jrwoodruff 17y ago
So I wonder if taking a few lessons in a cessna 150 would allay this guys fears?
- yan 17y ago
  Maybe. I never had a fear of commercial flying, but the first few lessons in a cessna 152 on a sunny day sure reminded me why people are afraid to fly. That, and me almost killing me and instructor a few months later did that too. At least now, I can slip on landings in a very safe and accurate manner. edit: I'm sure a few lessons can desensitize a person
  - jrwoodruff 17y ago
    Hehe - I had a couple lessons in a 150 - makes even the smallest turbo-prop commercial flight feel pretty big in comparison, doesn't it? Glad you're still alive. I wonder if understanding the mechanics of it all helps with the fear thing too. I seem to remember there's a decent amount of basic aerodynamics and such before they let you take the stick...
- lutorm 17y ago
  Maybe. But flying in small general-aviation aircraft, the risk of anything happening is a lot higher than with transport aircraft... Seems funny to start doing something riskier in order to be able to do something less risky...
  - randallsquared 17y ago
    Actually, that seems exactly right. People do exaggerated versions of what they're afraid of to get over the fear all the time. Phobic about being near snakes? A class that cures you will involve handling snakes, rather than merely being close to them.
scott_s 17y ago
That's the very definition of an irrational fear - one that has nothing to do with the actual risk of an activity.
prpon 17y ago
And then you walk into a subway store and pick up a sandwich, the spinach you wanted for good health had E.Coli. You contract Gastrointestinal infection and then you die. My dad used to say "At the end of the day we all are alive because of the trust we have for one another". Whether you know that person or not, we inherently place that trust in others.

by gcb 17y ago

ulf 17y ago

This concept of control is a _very_ irrational one. Of course you steer and pedal your bike by yourself. But by taking part in traffic you give up at least as much control as flying by plane. Some guy hitting you with his car from behind is not exactly in your control.

dimas 17y ago
It is irrational but it shows how our mind work(what is sometime is irrational and does not always work according to statistics). On the bike you feel like you have more control because you can control one factor is yourself directing the bike and possibility avoid the accident(in your mind). On the plane you have no control in any directions. No matter what happens you are helpless and bets you can do is pray
psnj 17y ago
Agree. When I was getting my pilot's license, I learned to be hyper-aware of another airplane that was less than say 1000 feet from me. But the strangest part of those lessons was getting back into my car afterward and getting onto the 417, where I was a couple of feet away from other cars, also going 75mph. I was completely at these other drivers' mercy: I had effectively no time to react to them, and knew from experience that lots of drivers are just plain awful (and this was really before you'd see people driving while texting with one hand and changing their kids' DVD in the other.) It was very, very scary. Total loss of control — far more than in an airplane, where to a much greater degree if things go sideways, it was probably your fault anyway. The other interesting thing about the scary drive was how long it stayed scary: maybe ten minutes, tops. After that — business as usual. Didn't even think about it. It's interesting what we can get used to.

aaronz3 17y ago

A friend of mine flies 737s for one of the major airlines, and he once told me, "When I'm up in the air I don't give a damn about the 150 people behind me. I'm sure as hell going to take care of myself though, and if I make it through they don't have much choice but to follow me." You may not be in control, but the pilot is, and he wants to make it to his destination just as much as you do.

harpastum 17y ago
That reminds me of the story a couple months ago in Britain [1]: "One passenger then identified himself as a qualified aircraft engineer and offered to try to remedy the fault. He was successful, and the plane landed in Glasgow only 35 minutes late...It was reassuring to know the person who had fixed it was still on the aeroplane." Normally I'd be very worried that my plane was fixed by someone that didn't actually work for that company, but the fact that he trusted his own life to his fix would go a long way to reassuring me. [1]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1198058/Is-engineer-board-Passenger-steps-forward-fix-Thomas-Cook-passenger-jet.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1198058/Is-engineer-...
- run4yourlives 17y ago
  In the Canadian Army, the people who re-pack parachutes for soldiers (riggers) have a similar safe guard to ensure quality. At any given time, a commander can select any particular chute that they've packed, and they have to jump using it. Needless to say the quality control is near perfect.
- tomjen2 17y ago
  Once upon a time, the foreman on the shack that made a cannon would _sit_ on it when it was first fired (I don't think that included the cannonball, but still). The reason was that if the inside wasn't smooth, the cannon might go off.
gcheong 17y ago
Well, you hope so anyway. There is always the chance that your pilot is in the process of getting a divorce or losing his/her house, going bankrupt, or something and decides to hell with it all. But your friend is right, either way, the people in the back have no choice but to follow.

j_b_f 17y ago

If "lack of control" is what defines your fears, then I'd assume you'd be afraid of almost everything. Our water supply, break-ins, the government, etc. Can you ride a bus or sit in the passenger seat of a car? When you ride a bike, do you realize how easily a car could just take you out? At some point you have to look at the data and determine what's a reasonable fear and what isn't. If you maintain an unreasonable fear of a reasonably safe activity, don't try to make it appear rational by explaining it's a control issue.

jrwoodruff 17y ago
In most of the situations you list, we can still convince ourself we're in control. We can ditch the bike to avoid the car, drink bottled water if we think tap water is unsafe, lock our doors, jump out of the escape hatch on the bus (or grab the wheel if necessary). On a plane, you have no options, short of skydiving without a parachute. You pretty much hand complete control, and more importantly, any illusion of control, over to the pilot. The point here is most fear is irrational. Also, the illusion of control is just that.

jrwoodruff 17y ago

So I wonder if taking a few lessons in a cessna 150 would allay this guys fears?

yan 17y ago
Maybe. I never had a fear of commercial flying, but the first few lessons in a cessna 152 on a sunny day sure reminded me why people are afraid to fly. That, and me almost killing me and instructor a few months later did that too. At least now, I can slip on landings in a very safe and accurate manner. edit: I'm sure a few lessons can desensitize a person
- jrwoodruff 17y ago
  Hehe - I had a couple lessons in a 150 - makes even the smallest turbo-prop commercial flight feel pretty big in comparison, doesn't it? Glad you're still alive. I wonder if understanding the mechanics of it all helps with the fear thing too. I seem to remember there's a decent amount of basic aerodynamics and such before they let you take the stick...
lutorm 17y ago
Maybe. But flying in small general-aviation aircraft, the risk of anything happening is a lot higher than with transport aircraft... Seems funny to start doing something riskier in order to be able to do something less risky...
- randallsquared 17y ago
  Actually, that seems exactly right. People do exaggerated versions of what they're afraid of to get over the fear all the time. Phobic about being near snakes? A class that cures you will involve handling snakes, rather than merely being close to them.

scott_s 17y ago

That's the very definition of an irrational fear - one that has nothing to do with the actual risk of an activity.

prpon 17y ago

And then you walk into a subway store and pick up a sandwich, the spinach you wanted for good health had E.Coli. You contract Gastrointestinal infection and then you die. My dad used to say "At the end of the day we all are alive because of the trust we have for one another". Whether you know that person or not, we inherently place that trust in others.