16 ms·

iPhone 6 and Android value

103 points by taylorwc 12y ago

declan 12y ago
I think the article's author is right and that there could easily be high-end market shift from Android at the margin. On the other hand, Android Wear watches are already shipping, Google voice search is better than Siri, Google Now is kinda magic, Material Design is a very nice unified design language that is arguably better than iOS, and Android Auto could take off. (By way of background, I'm working on developing http://recent.io http://recent.io for both iOS and Android. Currently I switch between an iPhone 5 and a Nexus 5 and expect to buy both the iPhone 6 and the Nexus 6/X rumored to be coming out this fall.) >with the iPhone 6 Plus (a very Microsofty name, it must be said)... Except for the Apple II Plus, the Mac Plus, the LaserWriter Plus, the Apple IIc Plus, the Apple III Plus[1]... In reality I'd say it's a very Appley name! :) [1] Yes, there actually was such a critter: http://support.apple.com/kb/TA31434 http://support.apple.com/kb/TA31434
- toomuchtodo 12y ago
  +1; The value isn't in the device, it's in the ecosystem. Siri isn't going to integrate with my Nest, Apple Maps isn't going to have a fleet of vehicles driving around to confirm mapping data, and Google Now has the ability to digest information from both existing Google users and the web. Can Apple create a better platform backend faster than Google can meet them at design/UX?
  - psbp 12y ago
    But it's in Google's interest to have all of those benefits available on Apple's platform as well.
    - danieldk 12y ago
      Until iOS's market share starts shrinking to a small percentage of the population, and Google will give them the Windows Phone treatment. And then a subpar Google experience on iOS might push iOS users to Android. It's just a matter of getting the timing right.
      - stephenr 12y ago
        It's just as likely to push people away from Google services. The majority of people using iOS are not financially invested in the google ecosystem - they're more likely to be using the free services like search, email, maps, etc. If a google service doesn't work well on the $700 phone you've just bought that runs 5 years worth of purchased apps, are you really going to abandon all of that because of a free service? No, you're going to find a service that works better on the device. There are very few if any things where google is the only provider or even the only good provider of a service.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      I don't disagree.
  - traek 12y ago
    The thing is, most of Google's services are available on iOS as well. And IMO Google's apps are as good on iOS or even better than they are on Android. You can get the best of both worlds by using iOS with Google's apps and services.
    - lern_too_spel 12y ago
      You can't make every address link open in the superior maps app or every tweet open in the superior twitter app or every link open in the superior browser app. While iOS may have closed the gap in finally having these apps, actually using them is a frustrating experience.
      - threeseed 12y ago
        You will be able to iOS8 and can do so now if you jailbreak.
        kyrra 12y ago
        How so? From what I'm seeing, you can't change the default app for maps, browser, etc.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      True, but Google needs to keep their own platform as large as possible. What do we say around HN about building your business on someone else's platform?
      - rayiner 12y ago
        > What do we say around HN about building your business on someone else's platform? That the government should regulate those peoples' platforms?
        deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
        12y ago
  - Zaheer 12y ago
    In terms of the app portion of the ecosystem, iOS apps tend to be much higher quality than Android apps overall.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      Personal preference I guess. I switched from a Galaxy Nexus to an iPhone 5S, and I'm sorely disappointed with app functionality on iOS. Looking forward to jumping back to Android in short order.
      - kyrra 12y ago
        How so specifically? While i like many of the features of android, the UI guidelines google gave to devs for a long time sucked pretty bad. L looks to fix that, but it's taken a long time to get here
    - cageface 12y ago
      This really isn't true for the major players, IMO. Actually I find the Twitter app better on Android, for instance. There's still a gap in the quality of apps made by smaller indie players though. iOS apps are generally better in that segment.
      - 72deluxe 12y ago
        eBay on Android is feeble compared to the iOS one, particularly layout-wise. They are making very very very slow attempts to improve the Android version though, from what I can tell.
  - sounds 12y ago
    Google has traditionally been too attention-starved to stick with a product long enough to get the design/UX perfect. That's not to say Google has never created a truly beautiful product. Rather, the problem seems to be that Google isn't hooked directly to the hardware sales, so hardware design is left to third parties. Except for the handsets Google sells directly. In the end, I think this strategy will win for Google, because there is so much more effort being invested into the creation of Android devices. I'm not saying quantity = quality, but rather that "good enough" trumps "perfect." In the meantime, Xiaomi is a good example of trying to get Android to "perfect" -- and it's very telling that they mod it extensively (in MIUI).
    - dragonwriter 12y ago
      I think a bigger deal than "good enough" trumps "perfect" is that "good" (whether "good enough" or "perfect") isn't objective, its subjective, and more options means you are more likely to find something that meets your preferences.
    - freehunter 12y ago
      Even the handsets Google sells directly are not made or designed by Google. They're merely a rebranded version of other handset makers' phones.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    > Siri isn't going to integrate with my Nest What makes you think Apple won't release a SiriKit in the future ? > Apple Maps isn't going to have a fleet of vehicles driving around to confirm mapping data. Neither does Google in most places. And Apple, Google, Microsoft etc all rely on third party data providers for most of their map data. Surely they would be confirming the data. > Can Apple create a better platform backend faster than Google can meet them at design/UX? The issue is not what Google itself does. It's the ability of Google to influence the ecosystem to come along with it. That has always been the problem.
    - stephenr 12y ago
      Homekit is apples solution to the first point. Siri talks to homekit compatible apps/devices. So in that scenario it's up to nest to support homekit, the way Honeywell are (apparently)
      - mcphage 12y ago
        > Siri talks to homekit compatible apps/devices. So in that scenario it's up to nest to support homekit And Nest is owned by Google, so I'm not sure how likely that is.
        freehunter 12y ago
        Google supports iOS pretty well. They don't support Windows Phone at all, but I've heard a lot of Android users complaining at various points that iOS gets the app updates quicker than Android does for some Google apps.
        mcphage 12y ago
        And there's probably a lot of overlap between Apple's customer base and Nest's. I'm not saying they won't do it, I really just mean I don't know how likely it is :-)
    - lern_too_spel 12y ago
  - ssmoot 12y ago
    I have a Nest, and the Nest app on both Android and IOS. I'm not sure what you're getting at with that. Seems the experience is pretty much identical?
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      Google is integrating Nest with Google Now this fall ("Google, set the temperature to X degrees") although after thinking about it I realized that Google Now is available on iOS (just not constantly available as it is on Android devices enabled to listen constantly for the cue.
      - ssmoot 12y ago
        Isn't that only the Motorola phones? But thanks. I didn't know about the Nest integration. I'm not sure I personally find it real compelling... but I know plenty of people that seem to really like Google Now. Different strokes I suppose.
        toomuchtodo 12y ago
        No problem! I'm hoping for Google to roll out Google Now support into the Nest devices directly, so it can pickup my voice throughout my house (thermostat, nest protects) and respond accordingly (a la Startrek).
- m_ke 12y ago
  Apple will be royally screwed if smartwatches catch on. I feel that way for two reasons: 1) Watches are a fashion accessory and one does not fit all. There's no way they'll be able to compete with the variety of devices that will be running android wear. 2) A proper smartwatch will need to be smart and Apple doesn't have the data nor the personnel to compete with Google on the machine learning side.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    We've heard exactly the same thing about the iPod, iPhone, iPad. If you measure being "royally screwed" on market share then sure Apple will never do as well as Android. But if you measure it on actually making money than Apple will be just fine. The companies that are royally screwed are the LG, Samsungs of the world who are having their margins eaten by the Chinese.
    - rtx 12y ago
      Not really, people buying highend LG smart phones don't go and buy a Lenovo.
  - achompas 12y ago
    (1) Counterpoint: Apple has much better taste than other OEMs. They've hired designers from Burberry and Nike to assist with wearable design. Design is a core competency for Apple. Others can't claim the same thing. (2) More data gets you a couple of percentage points on accuracy. It doesn't make Google Now infinitely better in perpetuity than Apple's offering (Siri + whatever is next). Apple is also investing heavily in building out Siri/Maps/NLP.
    - deong 12y ago
      More data gets you way more than that, but it's not just the data anyway. Google has the personnel who are able to make use of that data. This isn't the kind of stuff you can easily outsource, you need a superb research team. (Source: I'm a professor in machine learning). As far as anyone knows, Apple doesn't have one. They do fantastic product research, and it shows, but they're at least a decade behind the knowledge contained inside of Google, and increasingly, Facebook, Baidu, and a few others. And worse than that, the gap is widening, not shrinking.
- rayiner 12y ago
  Is Google Voice Search really better than Siri? It seems much less able to handle things like followup or anything that requires context. "OK Google" is much more likely to just give me a web search, while my wife's iPhone seems to more often give helpful spoken results.
  - psbp 12y ago
    In my limited use of both, Google is better at voice recognition. I'm not sure why they haven't built a true siri competitor.
    - chetanahuja 12y ago
      What would constitute a "true Siri competitor"? Currently, on my MotoX, I can do all common tasks like calendar entries, reminders, calling people. emails, text messaging, searching for information etc. etc. The kickers here are: I can do all this WITHOUT TOUCHING the device. I do all this in my Indian accented English (Siri is useless to me and my entire extended family for this reason alone). This device came out more than a year ago. I bought this device for half the price of an iPhone 5s unlocked. The real question is, can Apple come up with a real Google Now competitor, deeply integrated with their devices, before this window of opportunity in the wearable devices blows by them.
      - 72deluxe 12y ago
        Out of interest, is it quicker to do these things by voice than just using the phone with your hands? I always try texting by voice and when it gets it wrong (often!) I find myself just using the phone normally and am reluctant to use the voice features again. Does anyone else have this experience?
        saturdaysaint 12y ago
        I've been using Siri for years. Texting is occasionally hit or miss (although simple things like "On my way" or "Be there in 15" are reliable), but there are a ton of things that are way quicker than typing (and completely reliable). "Directions home", "Movies playing near me","Open app X","What was the last Tigers score","Call Amy",most Google searches... Maybe it's my flat midwestern accent, but I find that Siri gets it right almost all the time with these things, and I find it way more natural and fast than hunting for an app icon, especially while driving/walking/biking.
rdtsc 12y ago
$600. I know they were always expensive. But for me, I just don't see paying that for something I might forget, drop, sit on, lose, have it stolen. I got a Moto G for $170. Paid cash, and then got on a T-Mobile month by month plan. If I break it. I'll just go and get another one. My relatives and friends have iPhones and looking and comparing them, I just don't see the extra "niceness" worth the other $430. Same goes for expensive Android phones.
- barbs 12y ago
  Bought the Moto G for my Dad for his birthday. He's reasonably tech-savvy, and he's owned a Samsung Galaxy S2, but he loves it. He knows how much it costs and is constantly amazed at how well it performs.
- deleted 12y ago
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- frio 12y ago
  I strongly agree with this. With the new iOS, Apple have caught up on some of the Android features I've wanted to see in that platform. My current phone is aging, and I was ready to cut over. However -- at an eye-watering $1000NZD minimum for a 16GB iPhone 6, there's just no way I can justify the purchase. The 5S is still going for a minimum of $900NZD. Retina assets mean that 16GB is vaguely pointless, so you're really looking at $1150 or $1300 (6/6+) for the step up. Google's Nexus line, the Moto X/G and others have proved that premium-ish devices can be had for a third of that price, and as much as I'd like to be on iOS, I simply can't afford it.
  - danieldk 12y ago
    And even if you can, why would you? I currently have a Moto X. If something bad happens with it (stolen, damaged), I will get a 180 Euro Moto G. It's still not pocket change, but far less to worry about than a 699 Euro iPhone 6. I want to use a phone carelessly and not put it on a silk pillow or use it with a case or screen protector. Some of my friends have Gs, and they are very happy with it. I played with one, and I really liked it (especially the first gen, which has a nice size).
Zigurd 12y ago
The BIG HUGE problem with the article is in using app store revenue to measure "value to the ecosystem." Google does not show signs of caring about app store revenue and would certainly continue to develop Android without that revenue. Google has a completely different ecosystem than Apple. That said, The value of the new iPhones is considerable. They will make a dent in Android market share, but not as big a dent as had they been "indestructable" sapphire clad.
- benedictevans 12y ago
  App store revenue is not really relevant to Apple or Google - it's small as a proportion of either company. It is, though, relevant to developers - partly for its own value, but as importantly for what it tells you about the users. That is, it's a proxy for overall willingness to spend on anything. Pretty much all ecommerce companies will tell you they see the same proportions, even if they're not using iTunes or Google payments directly.
  - Ologn 12y ago
    I primarily program for Android. One of my personal apps has bounced between $1000 and $2300 a month in revenue since May 2013. Over 99% of that was ad revenue (the other <1% were experiments in alternative revenue). Not spectacular, but I've been happy with it, and I have other Android apps making money on ads as well. Many websites make money on ads, why not apps? In mobile ads versus web ads, mobile has drawbacks and advantages. Some of the advantages have not been fully employed yet. If John Doe is walking through a mall, a Macy's ad can spring up for a sale within that mall. Mobile is still in its nascent stage, and ad networks to support it are still in early days. Insight into what Android consumers are willing to spend money on is next to nothing. Ecommerce companies have cruddy Android apps, and their web sites look horrible in a phone. One billion Android phones will be sold this year. Lack of Android consumer willingness to spend has little to do with them, and a lot to do with how little businesses have been giving users. Making money with Android is like shooting fish in a barrel since, for whatever reason, companies and programmers aren't stepping up to do add-ons for the billion Android phones that will sell this year. That may be changing though - three years ago the New York Android meetings fit around a table at a bar, now they're sponsored by companies and overflowing the 200 person registration limit. So that infrastructure is getting built out. Until then, we know next to nothing about the overall willingness of Android consumers to spend.
dude3 12y ago
Apple needs to publish SunSpider Javascript and other real world browser benchmarks. The new A8 is going to be much faster than a 2.7 805 in the Note 4. The iPhone is actually a great deal when you consider performance. http://hothardware.com/articleimages/Item2222/sunspider.png http://hothardware.com/articleimages/Item2222/sunspider.png
capcah 12y ago
I'd like to point out the writer for dismissing customisability. This is my opinion, but the popularity of some apps used to customise my phone leads me to believe I do not stand alone. Let's not forget that the android can offer advanced functionality that Apple seems to refuse to offer on its devices: access to a local file system, ability to work as an USB stick(it's even possible to have your phone work as a boot stick), being able to turn its wireless card into monitor mode for mobile sniffing. Last, but not least: Waterproofness and mechanical resistance. Apple seems to have forgotten these two points on the iPhone, even though they already have a good starting point(phone with no removable battery). So, yeah, I don't think apple will win over the premium market that easily. EDIT: Adjusting newlines, forgot that newfags can't triforce.
- psychometry 12y ago
  I laughed when he wrote that Android customization is basically alternate keyboards and widgets. Clearly he's never even held one in his hand. I switched to Android after four iPhones and I'm amazed at how much easier and quicker it is to do things on Android when I have total control over the UI.
  - benedictevans 12y ago
    That's not what I wrote. I said that iOS8 addresses some of these points, with keyboards as just one example, and that the key difference is now personal taste rather than screen size or availability. Clearly some people prefer iOS and others Android. But that's not the issue, is it?
    - psychometry 12y ago
      >You can get a bigger screen, you can change the keyboard, you can put widgets on the notification panel (if you insist) and so on. Pretty much all the external reasons to choose Android are addressed It wouldn't be hard to come up with a list of dozens of features that you can customize on Android that you can't on iOS. If you really think you're covered "pretty much all the reasons" to choose Android, you haven't researched the platform very thoroughly.
harshreality 12y ago
It's interesting how Apple talked about ApplePay as if it's something revolutionary, that "only Apple could do". Maybe Apple did motivate retailers to put in NFC payment hardware, but I've been using Google Wallet at Whole Foods (with a N5 released 9 months ago) for weeks, since they put in NFC at the payment kiosks (probably in advance of the Apple Pay launch, but that makes no difference to my ability to use them). So I had to laugh at the attempt to promote Apple Pay and NFC as a selling point of iPhone 6 and iOS 8. A little late to that party, Apple... if you're going to show up late, don't pretend you're first, instead focus on how you implemented it better (which may very well be true, although I haven't seen android 5 yet).
- sosuke 12y ago
  I think it must be conceded that Apple was much more aggressive in on-boarding POS systems and credit card companies than Google, and for that they deserve credit. Google moved first with the tech, said "here, go forth and code for it", and didn't get a ton of traction. Apple went so far as to even get a cut of the credit card transaction fees if Bloomberg was right. Even Paypal hasn't had a ton of success trying to be THE mobile payment platform, and what was poking fun at Apple actually turns around, IMHO, to be a stab at themselves for not delivering on a system themselves. "Nobody can dispute Apple's strong track record, but payments is a difficult area," PayPal's Rob Skinner told TechRadar. "It's much more difficult to do payments than to keep a live stream working."
  - simonh 12y ago
    'PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in.'
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
- 72deluxe 12y ago
  If only the UK had such Android wallet capabilities...
phaus 12y ago
What about the 7th category, the consumer that is tired of having his wallet savaged by the four major carriers. Android offers users the opportunity to buy a high-end device, off-contract, for $350. You can then use this phone with a pre-paid service that costs 1/2 of what the major carriers sell. Maybe its a small demographic, but it seems like its growing.
- estel 12y ago
  Whilst obviously it's not at this price, but surely you can get an iPhone off-contract?
  - prof_hobart 12y ago
    You certainly can in the UK.
  - Igglyboo 12y ago
    Yep, I think the base model iPhone 6 is going to be $600 off contract.
  - phaus 12y ago
    You are correct, but the pricing was the entire point of the statement I made.
- ansible 12y ago
  ... a high-end device, off-contract, for $350. Maybe even less if you can time it right. When the Nexus 4 went on sale last year for $200 (8GB) / $250 (16GB) USD last year, I debated it for all of about 10 minutes before buying one. If the N5 goes on sale this year to clear out the inventory, I'd consider that a very good value as well.
diminish 12y ago
The Apple's sales market share of non-phablets <5" is known, around 20% for 14Q2 where sub-5" make up 60% of the total market ( Tomi Ahonen). The upcoming hidden truth is that Apple is on its way for a single digit global smartphone market share. It's main strength appears to be the operator lock in in US mainly and elsewhere. Moto360 and others are even competing against this point with a price lower than just the contract prepayment. Another problem is the looming lower overall smartphone growth next year, which will drive prices further down. Fred Wilson ended up being right, in that, the smartphone market turned out to be similar to PC market where a dominant ~90% Android will be next to a single digit Apple.
- benedictevans 12y ago
  Actually, I quoted utterly uncontroversial, industry standard stats. I'd response to your other points, but I don't quite understand what you're trying to say. Apple sold around 20% of all smartphones in Q4 2013 (it's pretty cyclical) and is at or around 10% of all phone sales - this number is rising steadily.
  - diminish 12y ago
    ok, tried to make it better. Apple iPhone Plus may dent into >5", phablet category where in Q2 it has 0%, which makes 40% of overall. For the Larger sub 5" Apple has 20% share of sales in Q2.
- mcphage 12y ago
  > Fred Wilson ended up being right, in that, the smartphone market turned out to be similar to PC market where a dominant ~90% Android will be next to a single digit Apple. How are the major Windows PC manufacturers doing these days?
buro9 12y ago
If you follow Benedict Evans on Twitter then you know that he is something of an Apple fan boy, so it's hard to read such a piece without noting that there is already considerable bias in it. I'd like to address the first list though, "There are a bunch of reasons why someone would buy a high-end Android rather than an iPhone". That list does not include the two reasons that myself and people I know use Android: 1. We wish to have control over our devices 2. We have not invested heavily in either Apple or Google and we avoid making choices that will force us to be invested in one over the other On the first point, control may be about privacy (using something like XPrivacy), personalisation (perhaps CyanogenMod), adblock (AdAway), or simply having more control over what runs to be able to extend the battery of a Nexus 5 to a few days of heavy use rather than a single day (kill all the background services but still have the apps available for us to use). On the second point, myself and my friends do not use Google as an ecosystem or as a range of permanent services and virtual assistants. We invariably are using different launchers (Nova is most common), perhaps Duck Duck Go... and our Google footprint is really just to use some Google apps as standalone apps (Gmail, calendar, drive). We tend to get media from Kindle, or Spotify... so we're not even hooked on Google Play. What this means is that we've avoided deep lock-in with Google, and we make choices that avoid being locked in to Microsoft or Apple too. When I think of what most of my friends use, it's a mix of technologies. Apple and Lenovo laptops, the latter running Windows or Linux. iPods and Cowon music players. Mostly Android phones. The biggest reasons not to go for an iPhone are the same reasons we haven't gone for an iPhone to date: It feels like an all or nothing decision that would be hard to change in the future. The value of an iPhone seems to be of the entire Apple ecosystem, it makes sense if you've bought into it already, or are choosing to buy into it, but not if you do not choose to be locked in. The value, to us, of an Android device is that you can get the benefits of this technology without having to be part of any ecosystem, Google's or Samsung's or that of anyone else (Amazon?). I'm not sure it's possible for Benedict to see this any more... he's personally so deep into the Apple world that his perspective is skewed by that reality. The question of why anyone would choose not to be a part of an ecosystem isn't even asked. He's made it an Apple vs Google question, when the people I know using Android are not even considering that question. PS: If I think of what entices people to consider an Apple iPhone more than anything else, it's the camera (usually noted as the software ecosystem around the camera). Photography on an iPhone bests every Android device there is. This is the single reason that some of my friends have an iPhone.
higherpurpose 12y ago
Here's one thing the author is missing: all high-end phones are essentially being "disrupted" by lower cost models that are getting increasingly better - or in other words just as good as the high-end ones were 2-3 years ago, when many people were very happy with their high-end phones at the time. Why do you think Apple's market share is steadily declining at the global levels? It's because of the lower-cost phones. So Apple may "win" the 600+ dollar/euro high-end, just like they won in the $1,000+ PC market, and while that will no doubt continue to remain profitable for Apple, it will ultimately mean Apple has a small market share, and therefore a smaller ecosystem.
Htsthbjig 12y ago
I have an additional reason: 7.Taking notes on our devices. I have an iphone for developing iOS and a galaxy Note. I hate lots on things on Android(painfully slow and half baked) but note taking I love.
- Nicholas_C 12y ago
  What app do you use for note taking?
- boyaka 12y ago
  I don't understand why so many people in the Apple vs Android debate are completely oblivious to the fact that Apple is just a lot smoother transitioning from task to task and handling lag so that the user doesn't notice it. I've been a majority android user (Droid 1 '09-'11, Galaxy Nexus up to today) but I did purchase a 5s last year, which is currently waterlogged due to lending it to my mother. I borrowed my mom's 3GS and even though it is quite slow, it has a magical ability to accurately detect and respond to my inputs as I would expect it to. Even on my Galaxy Nexus I have trouble with video lag switching between tasks, very long delays between my input and a response, and sometimes complete ignorance of my inputs. One of the most frustrating things for me when using the device is opening a web browser and trying to type a query into the search bar without having to wait for it to do who knows what in the background and attempt to load the last page I was looking at that I have no desire to see, while ignoring my spam clicking of the "X" to try to get it to stop. Not to mention the app support for the 3GS is amazing compared to my Droid 1. I certainly can't get all the latest apps, but older apps still function extremely well, it really lives up to the UX hype. My Droid 1 can't even run YouTube anymore. It's obvious that the advantage Apple has is that it has it's walled garden, closed hardware/software ecosystem. But it really shines in making the devices usable.
ZeroGravitas 12y ago
Is all that money that the App store rakes in still mostly crappy, IAP-stuffed mobile games? I know people like to pretend it's all artisanal productivity apps, but aren't the revenue numbers like 80% games? (A quick Google finds some sources vaguely claiming this was true a couple of years ago, can't quickly find newer or better sourced stats)
minusSeven 12y ago
From an Indian perspective Iphone prices in India are really well out of budget of most people. Only people who can afford Iphone go for them. But even then lot of people like to try other options. Android is really dominant here and most people are rather familiar with the Android ecosystems.
- msoad 12y ago
  That's this article's point. If someone can't afford $600 phone, Apple has no interest in them. Because Apple wants big margins. On other hand, Google is even willing to pay you to use Android to collect your data. They do it with their Android One program in India now.
  - prapam2 12y ago
    Apple was giving heavy discounts to attract buyers. High end Samsung costs around same and they have good sales. "Google is even willing to pay you to use Android to collect your data" - where did you get that? Most of the people here buy at full price, we don't have subsidies.
msoad 12y ago
Take me as an example: I'm switching to iOS from a high end Android phone. My main reasons are better privacy and better user experience. My main reason I switched to Android was screen size.
- kissickas 12y ago
  Do you see Apple as being better for privacy? Sure, Google has my Gmail, but only because I choose to give it to them. I could use anything else on my Android phone. Do you use Firefox, duckduckgo, XPrivacy etc.? Because Apple, in reality, only gives you one choice (even when I was using Opera, Safari would butt in all of the time - I haven't read a word about iOS8 so correct me if I'm wrong), and you're screwed if it doesn't work.
  - msoad 12y ago
    My main issue with Android is how app permissions work.
    - MichaelGG 12y ago
      Android's permission model is inexcusably malicious. For instance, the "phone status" permission, that also gives apps the ability to see who you call, read your device ID, etc. There's zero reason that checking to see if the phone is active requires a permission. But by including those very intrusive permissions along with a benign one, Google encourages people to get used to revealing tons of personal information. Google now allows apps to silently add even more permissions, if they are in the "same group". They try to downplay and confuse things as much as possible. It seems highly unlikely this was accidental. This is the main reason I'm disgusted with Google/Android and am doing all I can to stop using their products and services.
      - kissickas 12y ago
        I agree that that is terrible, but I use XPrivacy to combat it. If you don't mind educating me further - what is the state of permissions on iOS? I haven't been using it for a year, but I don't recall any user involvement in allowing or forbidding any permissions at all. Is it better in any way?
jasonwen 12y ago
About the value of Apple vs Android users, it also helps that Apple has an easier payment system with Touch ID. This will only increase in the future. Android however does have introduced a 2-hour money back guarantee on apps. This might increase the spend on apps.
fpgeek 12y ago
One the one hand, this argument sounds plausible. On the other, we've seen this movie before. Remember Verizon? The iPhone 5 (LTE and a screen-size bump)? NTT DoCoMo and China Mobile? These were all supposed to be game-changers. And while they all helped Apple sell plenty of phones, the Android/iPhone game didn't really change. I'm sure the iPhone 6 and 6+ will be very successful. But I'm going to need to see something more before I believe that this time the game really will change.
- aetherson 12y ago
  I bought my first smartphone about 4.5 years ago. It was an Android because at the time an iPhone meant AT&T, and I didn't want to deal with their network. Two years ago I bought my second smartphone. It was an Android because inertia and also because at the time iOS was really a bit behind Android in terms of things like notifications and useful o/s features. I also bought my first tablet a little more than two years ago. It was an android because Apple didn't have a small tablet then (and because my phone was an android). I'm going to get a new smartphone soon. And you know what? It'll be an Android. Yes, Apple has at this point addressed all the things that pushed me to Android. I could get an iPhone on any network. The o/s has caught back up. They have a small tablet now. But at this point, why would I change? Every time I use an iOS device, in bothered by a ton of small details -- they aren't really flaws, just things that don't work the way I expect. What's the upside? I like Android now. If they had had all those features from the start, it would have been a different story. The flaw in this article is that it presumes that there is a large population of people who are just waiting for that one important feature to come to iOS so they can finally ditch Android. I don't think there are many people like that.
personZ 12y ago
This article is a bit like postulating "Why you might not eat steak for dinner", and then positing reasons that all orbits the assumption that steak is your default choice, and alternatives must therefore have extenuating circumstances. It is an absurd foundation. Did the grocer get more commission selling you chicken? (sidenote: That commission bit appears in every conspiracy laden story about Android's rise, despite having zero empirical evidence. Indeed, many carriers do more to market and pitch the iPhone than any other brand, implying something very different). For most people now, smartphones are largely interchangeable. They really are. You have a browser, can make calls, can access Netflix and your fantasy football app and Facebook and Twitter, etc. An iPhone 6x versus a GS 5, for instance, to many users it is simply a wash. Apple has tried hard to lock people into an ecosystem (Facetime me? No, Skype or Hangouts me please), but those efforts have fallen by the wayside and are becoming more of a hindrance than a benefit. So it comes down to marketing (you know, like having U2 and giving out albums to gain more attention for your keynote) and differentiating features. Apple tried with the "true tone" flash or whatever. HTC is trying the dual-lens camera. Others make their devices waterproof. And so on. It isn't so clear. Further, Ben Evans isn't just a bit of an Apple fan boy -- he is a huge Apple fan boy, with compromised credibility outside of that circle. He got a taste of the Apple aficionado love so now he panders to it fullstop. And given that Evans loves pointing out the payout to developers (then, absurdly calculating per capita metrics because it sells his point), note that the Play Store payout is growing more quickly than the App Store is -- YoY growth in the most recent yearly period was 150%. At current rates the Play Store will payout more than Apple within a year. But of course they're both very lucrative targets, and it would be folly to ignore either, and it's bizarre that this metric even appears in a piece contemplating consumer choices.
- pinaceae 12y ago
  the true value of the iphone is the Apple ecosystem. i give an rat's ass about android phones, they could be miles ahead - doesn't matter anymore. just a phone. i have an iphone, ipad, apple tv, macbook air and a compatible printer. and everything just works, like magic. i've spent years in the windows ecosystem tinkering. wrote my own sync for my iriver mp3 player, fiddled with regedit and battled drivers. so much lost time. IT bullshit galore. so tired of it. i know that if i want an apple watch i can buy it and it will perfectly into the rest of my devices and just work with them. no other vendor can claim such a value. iOS8 and Yosemite make this crystal clear, the new handover between apps will even work from Apple Watch. Just like that.

103 points by taylorwc 12y ago

I think the article's author is right and that there could easily be high-end market shift from Android at the margin. On the other hand, Android Wear watches are already shipping, Google voice search is better than Siri, Google Now is kinda magic, Material Design is a very nice unified design language that is arguably better than iOS, and Android Auto could take off. (By way of background, I'm working on developing http://recent.io http://recent.io for both iOS and Android. Currently I switch between an iPhone 5 and a Nexus 5 and expect to buy both the iPhone 6 and the Nexus 6/X rumored to be coming out this fall.) >with the iPhone 6 Plus (a very Microsofty name, it must be said)... Except for the Apple II Plus, the Mac Plus, the LaserWriter Plus, the Apple IIc Plus, the Apple III Plus[1]... In reality I'd say it's a very Appley name! :) [1] Yes, there actually was such a critter: http://support.apple.com/kb/TA31434 http://support.apple.com/kb/TA31434

toomuchtodo 12y ago
+1; The value isn't in the device, it's in the ecosystem. Siri isn't going to integrate with my Nest, Apple Maps isn't going to have a fleet of vehicles driving around to confirm mapping data, and Google Now has the ability to digest information from both existing Google users and the web. Can Apple create a better platform backend faster than Google can meet them at design/UX?
- psbp 12y ago
  But it's in Google's interest to have all of those benefits available on Apple's platform as well.
  - danieldk 12y ago
    Until iOS's market share starts shrinking to a small percentage of the population, and Google will give them the Windows Phone treatment. And then a subpar Google experience on iOS might push iOS users to Android. It's just a matter of getting the timing right.
    - stephenr 12y ago
      It's just as likely to push people away from Google services. The majority of people using iOS are not financially invested in the google ecosystem - they're more likely to be using the free services like search, email, maps, etc. If a google service doesn't work well on the $700 phone you've just bought that runs 5 years worth of purchased apps, are you really going to abandon all of that because of a free service? No, you're going to find a service that works better on the device. There are very few if any things where google is the only provider or even the only good provider of a service.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    I don't disagree.
- traek 12y ago
  The thing is, most of Google's services are available on iOS as well. And IMO Google's apps are as good on iOS or even better than they are on Android. You can get the best of both worlds by using iOS with Google's apps and services.
  - lern_too_spel 12y ago
    You can't make every address link open in the superior maps app or every tweet open in the superior twitter app or every link open in the superior browser app. While iOS may have closed the gap in finally having these apps, actually using them is a frustrating experience.
    - threeseed 12y ago
      You will be able to iOS8 and can do so now if you jailbreak.
      - kyrra 12y ago
        How so? From what I'm seeing, you can't change the default app for maps, browser, etc.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    True, but Google needs to keep their own platform as large as possible. What do we say around HN about building your business on someone else's platform?
    - rayiner 12y ago
      > What do we say around HN about building your business on someone else's platform? That the government should regulate those peoples' platforms?
      - deleted 12y ago
        [deleted]
      - 12y ago
- Zaheer 12y ago
  In terms of the app portion of the ecosystem, iOS apps tend to be much higher quality than Android apps overall.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Personal preference I guess. I switched from a Galaxy Nexus to an iPhone 5S, and I'm sorely disappointed with app functionality on iOS. Looking forward to jumping back to Android in short order.
    - kyrra 12y ago
      How so specifically? While i like many of the features of android, the UI guidelines google gave to devs for a long time sucked pretty bad. L looks to fix that, but it's taken a long time to get here
  - cageface 12y ago
    This really isn't true for the major players, IMO. Actually I find the Twitter app better on Android, for instance. There's still a gap in the quality of apps made by smaller indie players though. iOS apps are generally better in that segment.
    - 72deluxe 12y ago
      eBay on Android is feeble compared to the iOS one, particularly layout-wise. They are making very very very slow attempts to improve the Android version though, from what I can tell.
- sounds 12y ago
  Google has traditionally been too attention-starved to stick with a product long enough to get the design/UX perfect. That's not to say Google has never created a truly beautiful product. Rather, the problem seems to be that Google isn't hooked directly to the hardware sales, so hardware design is left to third parties. Except for the handsets Google sells directly. In the end, I think this strategy will win for Google, because there is so much more effort being invested into the creation of Android devices. I'm not saying quantity = quality, but rather that "good enough" trumps "perfect." In the meantime, Xiaomi is a good example of trying to get Android to "perfect" -- and it's very telling that they mod it extensively (in MIUI).
  - dragonwriter 12y ago
    I think a bigger deal than "good enough" trumps "perfect" is that "good" (whether "good enough" or "perfect") isn't objective, its subjective, and more options means you are more likely to find something that meets your preferences.
  - freehunter 12y ago
    Even the handsets Google sells directly are not made or designed by Google. They're merely a rebranded version of other handset makers' phones.
- threeseed 12y ago
  > Siri isn't going to integrate with my Nest What makes you think Apple won't release a SiriKit in the future ? > Apple Maps isn't going to have a fleet of vehicles driving around to confirm mapping data. Neither does Google in most places. And Apple, Google, Microsoft etc all rely on third party data providers for most of their map data. Surely they would be confirming the data. > Can Apple create a better platform backend faster than Google can meet them at design/UX? The issue is not what Google itself does. It's the ability of Google to influence the ecosystem to come along with it. That has always been the problem.
  - stephenr 12y ago
    Homekit is apples solution to the first point. Siri talks to homekit compatible apps/devices. So in that scenario it's up to nest to support homekit, the way Honeywell are (apparently)
    - mcphage 12y ago
      > Siri talks to homekit compatible apps/devices. So in that scenario it's up to nest to support homekit And Nest is owned by Google, so I'm not sure how likely that is.
      - freehunter 12y ago
        Google supports iOS pretty well. They don't support Windows Phone at all, but I've heard a lot of Android users complaining at various points that iOS gets the app updates quicker than Android does for some Google apps.
        mcphage 12y ago
        And there's probably a lot of overlap between Apple's customer base and Nest's. I'm not saying they won't do it, I really just mean I don't know how likely it is :-)
  - lern_too_spel 12y ago
- ssmoot 12y ago
  I have a Nest, and the Nest app on both Android and IOS. I'm not sure what you're getting at with that. Seems the experience is pretty much identical?
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Google is integrating Nest with Google Now this fall ("Google, set the temperature to X degrees") although after thinking about it I realized that Google Now is available on iOS (just not constantly available as it is on Android devices enabled to listen constantly for the cue.
    - ssmoot 12y ago
      Isn't that only the Motorola phones? But thanks. I didn't know about the Nest integration. I'm not sure I personally find it real compelling... but I know plenty of people that seem to really like Google Now. Different strokes I suppose.
      - toomuchtodo 12y ago
        No problem! I'm hoping for Google to roll out Google Now support into the Nest devices directly, so it can pickup my voice throughout my house (thermostat, nest protects) and respond accordingly (a la Startrek).
m_ke 12y ago
Apple will be royally screwed if smartwatches catch on. I feel that way for two reasons: 1) Watches are a fashion accessory and one does not fit all. There's no way they'll be able to compete with the variety of devices that will be running android wear. 2) A proper smartwatch will need to be smart and Apple doesn't have the data nor the personnel to compete with Google on the machine learning side.
- threeseed 12y ago
  We've heard exactly the same thing about the iPod, iPhone, iPad. If you measure being "royally screwed" on market share then sure Apple will never do as well as Android. But if you measure it on actually making money than Apple will be just fine. The companies that are royally screwed are the LG, Samsungs of the world who are having their margins eaten by the Chinese.
  - rtx 12y ago
    Not really, people buying highend LG smart phones don't go and buy a Lenovo.
- achompas 12y ago
  (1) Counterpoint: Apple has much better taste than other OEMs. They've hired designers from Burberry and Nike to assist with wearable design. Design is a core competency for Apple. Others can't claim the same thing. (2) More data gets you a couple of percentage points on accuracy. It doesn't make Google Now infinitely better in perpetuity than Apple's offering (Siri + whatever is next). Apple is also investing heavily in building out Siri/Maps/NLP.
  - deong 12y ago
    More data gets you way more than that, but it's not just the data anyway. Google has the personnel who are able to make use of that data. This isn't the kind of stuff you can easily outsource, you need a superb research team. (Source: I'm a professor in machine learning). As far as anyone knows, Apple doesn't have one. They do fantastic product research, and it shows, but they're at least a decade behind the knowledge contained inside of Google, and increasingly, Facebook, Baidu, and a few others. And worse than that, the gap is widening, not shrinking.
rayiner 12y ago
Is Google Voice Search really better than Siri? It seems much less able to handle things like followup or anything that requires context. "OK Google" is much more likely to just give me a web search, while my wife's iPhone seems to more often give helpful spoken results.
- psbp 12y ago
  In my limited use of both, Google is better at voice recognition. I'm not sure why they haven't built a true siri competitor.
  - chetanahuja 12y ago
    What would constitute a "true Siri competitor"? Currently, on my MotoX, I can do all common tasks like calendar entries, reminders, calling people. emails, text messaging, searching for information etc. etc. The kickers here are: I can do all this WITHOUT TOUCHING the device. I do all this in my Indian accented English (Siri is useless to me and my entire extended family for this reason alone). This device came out more than a year ago. I bought this device for half the price of an iPhone 5s unlocked. The real question is, can Apple come up with a real Google Now competitor, deeply integrated with their devices, before this window of opportunity in the wearable devices blows by them.
    - 72deluxe 12y ago
      Out of interest, is it quicker to do these things by voice than just using the phone with your hands? I always try texting by voice and when it gets it wrong (often!) I find myself just using the phone normally and am reluctant to use the voice features again. Does anyone else have this experience?
      - saturdaysaint 12y ago
        I've been using Siri for years. Texting is occasionally hit or miss (although simple things like "On my way" or "Be there in 15" are reliable), but there are a ton of things that are way quicker than typing (and completely reliable). "Directions home", "Movies playing near me","Open app X","What was the last Tigers score","Call Amy",most Google searches... Maybe it's my flat midwestern accent, but I find that Siri gets it right almost all the time with these things, and I find it way more natural and fast than hunting for an app icon, especially while driving/walking/biking.

rdtsc 12y ago

$600. I know they were always expensive. But for me, I just don't see paying that for something I might forget, drop, sit on, lose, have it stolen. I got a Moto G for $170. Paid cash, and then got on a T-Mobile month by month plan. If I break it. I'll just go and get another one. My relatives and friends have iPhones and looking and comparing them, I just don't see the extra "niceness" worth the other $430. Same goes for expensive Android phones.

barbs 12y ago
Bought the Moto G for my Dad for his birthday. He's reasonably tech-savvy, and he's owned a Samsung Galaxy S2, but he loves it. He knows how much it costs and is constantly amazed at how well it performs.
deleted 12y ago
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frio 12y ago
I strongly agree with this. With the new iOS, Apple have caught up on some of the Android features I've wanted to see in that platform. My current phone is aging, and I was ready to cut over. However -- at an eye-watering $1000NZD minimum for a 16GB iPhone 6, there's just no way I can justify the purchase. The 5S is still going for a minimum of $900NZD. Retina assets mean that 16GB is vaguely pointless, so you're really looking at $1150 or $1300 (6/6+) for the step up. Google's Nexus line, the Moto X/G and others have proved that premium-ish devices can be had for a third of that price, and as much as I'd like to be on iOS, I simply can't afford it.
- danieldk 12y ago
  And even if you can, why would you? I currently have a Moto X. If something bad happens with it (stolen, damaged), I will get a 180 Euro Moto G. It's still not pocket change, but far less to worry about than a 699 Euro iPhone 6. I want to use a phone carelessly and not put it on a silk pillow or use it with a case or screen protector. Some of my friends have Gs, and they are very happy with it. I played with one, and I really liked it (especially the first gen, which has a nice size).

Zigurd 12y ago

The BIG HUGE problem with the article is in using app store revenue to measure "value to the ecosystem." Google does not show signs of caring about app store revenue and would certainly continue to develop Android without that revenue. Google has a completely different ecosystem than Apple. That said, The value of the new iPhones is considerable. They will make a dent in Android market share, but not as big a dent as had they been "indestructable" sapphire clad.

benedictevans 12y ago
App store revenue is not really relevant to Apple or Google - it's small as a proportion of either company. It is, though, relevant to developers - partly for its own value, but as importantly for what it tells you about the users. That is, it's a proxy for overall willingness to spend on anything. Pretty much all ecommerce companies will tell you they see the same proportions, even if they're not using iTunes or Google payments directly.
- Ologn 12y ago
  I primarily program for Android. One of my personal apps has bounced between $1000 and $2300 a month in revenue since May 2013. Over 99% of that was ad revenue (the other <1% were experiments in alternative revenue). Not spectacular, but I've been happy with it, and I have other Android apps making money on ads as well. Many websites make money on ads, why not apps? In mobile ads versus web ads, mobile has drawbacks and advantages. Some of the advantages have not been fully employed yet. If John Doe is walking through a mall, a Macy's ad can spring up for a sale within that mall. Mobile is still in its nascent stage, and ad networks to support it are still in early days. Insight into what Android consumers are willing to spend money on is next to nothing. Ecommerce companies have cruddy Android apps, and their web sites look horrible in a phone. One billion Android phones will be sold this year. Lack of Android consumer willingness to spend has little to do with them, and a lot to do with how little businesses have been giving users. Making money with Android is like shooting fish in a barrel since, for whatever reason, companies and programmers aren't stepping up to do add-ons for the billion Android phones that will sell this year. That may be changing though - three years ago the New York Android meetings fit around a table at a bar, now they're sponsored by companies and overflowing the 200 person registration limit. So that infrastructure is getting built out. Until then, we know next to nothing about the overall willingness of Android consumers to spend.

dude3 12y ago

Apple needs to publish SunSpider Javascript and other real world browser benchmarks. The new A8 is going to be much faster than a 2.7 805 in the Note 4. The iPhone is actually a great deal when you consider performance. http://hothardware.com/articleimages/Item2222/sunspider.png http://hothardware.com/articleimages/Item2222/sunspider.png

capcah 12y ago

I'd like to point out the writer for dismissing customisability. This is my opinion, but the popularity of some apps used to customise my phone leads me to believe I do not stand alone. Let's not forget that the android can offer advanced functionality that Apple seems to refuse to offer on its devices: access to a local file system, ability to work as an USB stick(it's even possible to have your phone work as a boot stick), being able to turn its wireless card into monitor mode for mobile sniffing. Last, but not least: Waterproofness and mechanical resistance. Apple seems to have forgotten these two points on the iPhone, even though they already have a good starting point(phone with no removable battery). So, yeah, I don't think apple will win over the premium market that easily. EDIT: Adjusting newlines, forgot that newfags can't triforce.

psychometry 12y ago
I laughed when he wrote that Android customization is basically alternate keyboards and widgets. Clearly he's never even held one in his hand. I switched to Android after four iPhones and I'm amazed at how much easier and quicker it is to do things on Android when I have total control over the UI.
- benedictevans 12y ago
  That's not what I wrote. I said that iOS8 addresses some of these points, with keyboards as just one example, and that the key difference is now personal taste rather than screen size or availability. Clearly some people prefer iOS and others Android. But that's not the issue, is it?
  - psychometry 12y ago
    >You can get a bigger screen, you can change the keyboard, you can put widgets on the notification panel (if you insist) and so on. Pretty much all the external reasons to choose Android are addressed It wouldn't be hard to come up with a list of dozens of features that you can customize on Android that you can't on iOS. If you really think you're covered "pretty much all the reasons" to choose Android, you haven't researched the platform very thoroughly.

harshreality 12y ago

It's interesting how Apple talked about ApplePay as if it's something revolutionary, that "only Apple could do". Maybe Apple did motivate retailers to put in NFC payment hardware, but I've been using Google Wallet at Whole Foods (with a N5 released 9 months ago) for weeks, since they put in NFC at the payment kiosks (probably in advance of the Apple Pay launch, but that makes no difference to my ability to use them). So I had to laugh at the attempt to promote Apple Pay and NFC as a selling point of iPhone 6 and iOS 8. A little late to that party, Apple... if you're going to show up late, don't pretend you're first, instead focus on how you implemented it better (which may very well be true, although I haven't seen android 5 yet).

sosuke 12y ago
I think it must be conceded that Apple was much more aggressive in on-boarding POS systems and credit card companies than Google, and for that they deserve credit. Google moved first with the tech, said "here, go forth and code for it", and didn't get a ton of traction. Apple went so far as to even get a cut of the credit card transaction fees if Bloomberg was right. Even Paypal hasn't had a ton of success trying to be THE mobile payment platform, and what was poking fun at Apple actually turns around, IMHO, to be a stab at themselves for not delivering on a system themselves. "Nobody can dispute Apple's strong track record, but payments is a difficult area," PayPal's Rob Skinner told TechRadar. "It's much more difficult to do payments than to keep a live stream working."
- simonh 12y ago
  'PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in.'
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
72deluxe 12y ago
If only the UK had such Android wallet capabilities...

phaus 12y ago

What about the 7th category, the consumer that is tired of having his wallet savaged by the four major carriers. Android offers users the opportunity to buy a high-end device, off-contract, for $350. You can then use this phone with a pre-paid service that costs 1/2 of what the major carriers sell. Maybe its a small demographic, but it seems like its growing.

estel 12y ago
Whilst obviously it's not at this price, but surely you can get an iPhone off-contract?
- prof_hobart 12y ago
  You certainly can in the UK.
- Igglyboo 12y ago
  Yep, I think the base model iPhone 6 is going to be $600 off contract.
- phaus 12y ago
  You are correct, but the pricing was the entire point of the statement I made.
ansible 12y ago
... a high-end device, off-contract, for $350. Maybe even less if you can time it right. When the Nexus 4 went on sale last year for $200 (8GB) / $250 (16GB) USD last year, I debated it for all of about 10 minutes before buying one. If the N5 goes on sale this year to clear out the inventory, I'd consider that a very good value as well.

diminish 12y ago

The Apple's sales market share of non-phablets <5" is known, around 20% for 14Q2 where sub-5" make up 60% of the total market ( Tomi Ahonen). The upcoming hidden truth is that Apple is on its way for a single digit global smartphone market share. It's main strength appears to be the operator lock in in US mainly and elsewhere. Moto360 and others are even competing against this point with a price lower than just the contract prepayment. Another problem is the looming lower overall smartphone growth next year, which will drive prices further down. Fred Wilson ended up being right, in that, the smartphone market turned out to be similar to PC market where a dominant ~90% Android will be next to a single digit Apple.

benedictevans 12y ago
Actually, I quoted utterly uncontroversial, industry standard stats. I'd response to your other points, but I don't quite understand what you're trying to say. Apple sold around 20% of all smartphones in Q4 2013 (it's pretty cyclical) and is at or around 10% of all phone sales - this number is rising steadily.
- diminish 12y ago
  ok, tried to make it better. Apple iPhone Plus may dent into >5", phablet category where in Q2 it has 0%, which makes 40% of overall. For the Larger sub 5" Apple has 20% share of sales in Q2.
mcphage 12y ago
> Fred Wilson ended up being right, in that, the smartphone market turned out to be similar to PC market where a dominant ~90% Android will be next to a single digit Apple. How are the major Windows PC manufacturers doing these days?

buro9 12y ago

If you follow Benedict Evans on Twitter then you know that he is something of an Apple fan boy, so it's hard to read such a piece without noting that there is already considerable bias in it. I'd like to address the first list though, "There are a bunch of reasons why someone would buy a high-end Android rather than an iPhone". That list does not include the two reasons that myself and people I know use Android: 1. We wish to have control over our devices 2. We have not invested heavily in either Apple or Google and we avoid making choices that will force us to be invested in one over the other On the first point, control may be about privacy (using something like XPrivacy), personalisation (perhaps CyanogenMod), adblock (AdAway), or simply having more control over what runs to be able to extend the battery of a Nexus 5 to a few days of heavy use rather than a single day (kill all the background services but still have the apps available for us to use). On the second point, myself and my friends do not use Google as an ecosystem or as a range of permanent services and virtual assistants. We invariably are using different launchers (Nova is most common), perhaps Duck Duck Go... and our Google footprint is really just to use some Google apps as standalone apps (Gmail, calendar, drive). We tend to get media from Kindle, or Spotify... so we're not even hooked on Google Play. What this means is that we've avoided deep lock-in with Google, and we make choices that avoid being locked in to Microsoft or Apple too. When I think of what most of my friends use, it's a mix of technologies. Apple and Lenovo laptops, the latter running Windows or Linux. iPods and Cowon music players. Mostly Android phones. The biggest reasons not to go for an iPhone are the same reasons we haven't gone for an iPhone to date: It feels like an all or nothing decision that would be hard to change in the future. The value of an iPhone seems to be of the entire Apple ecosystem, it makes sense if you've bought into it already, or are choosing to buy into it, but not if you do not choose to be locked in. The value, to us, of an Android device is that you can get the benefits of this technology without having to be part of any ecosystem, Google's or Samsung's or that of anyone else (Amazon?). I'm not sure it's possible for Benedict to see this any more... he's personally so deep into the Apple world that his perspective is skewed by that reality. The question of why anyone would choose not to be a part of an ecosystem isn't even asked. He's made it an Apple vs Google question, when the people I know using Android are not even considering that question. PS: If I think of what entices people to consider an Apple iPhone more than anything else, it's the camera (usually noted as the software ecosystem around the camera). Photography on an iPhone bests every Android device there is. This is the single reason that some of my friends have an iPhone.

higherpurpose 12y ago

Here's one thing the author is missing: all high-end phones are essentially being "disrupted" by lower cost models that are getting increasingly better - or in other words just as good as the high-end ones were 2-3 years ago, when many people were very happy with their high-end phones at the time. Why do you think Apple's market share is steadily declining at the global levels? It's because of the lower-cost phones. So Apple may "win" the 600+ dollar/euro high-end, just like they won in the $1,000+ PC market, and while that will no doubt continue to remain profitable for Apple, it will ultimately mean Apple has a small market share, and therefore a smaller ecosystem.

Htsthbjig 12y ago

I have an additional reason: 7.Taking notes on our devices. I have an iphone for developing iOS and a galaxy Note. I hate lots on things on Android(painfully slow and half baked) but note taking I love.

Nicholas_C 12y ago
What app do you use for note taking?
boyaka 12y ago
I don't understand why so many people in the Apple vs Android debate are completely oblivious to the fact that Apple is just a lot smoother transitioning from task to task and handling lag so that the user doesn't notice it. I've been a majority android user (Droid 1 '09-'11, Galaxy Nexus up to today) but I did purchase a 5s last year, which is currently waterlogged due to lending it to my mother. I borrowed my mom's 3GS and even though it is quite slow, it has a magical ability to accurately detect and respond to my inputs as I would expect it to. Even on my Galaxy Nexus I have trouble with video lag switching between tasks, very long delays between my input and a response, and sometimes complete ignorance of my inputs. One of the most frustrating things for me when using the device is opening a web browser and trying to type a query into the search bar without having to wait for it to do who knows what in the background and attempt to load the last page I was looking at that I have no desire to see, while ignoring my spam clicking of the "X" to try to get it to stop. Not to mention the app support for the 3GS is amazing compared to my Droid 1. I certainly can't get all the latest apps, but older apps still function extremely well, it really lives up to the UX hype. My Droid 1 can't even run YouTube anymore. It's obvious that the advantage Apple has is that it has it's walled garden, closed hardware/software ecosystem. But it really shines in making the devices usable.

ZeroGravitas 12y ago

Is all that money that the App store rakes in still mostly crappy, IAP-stuffed mobile games? I know people like to pretend it's all artisanal productivity apps, but aren't the revenue numbers like 80% games? (A quick Google finds some sources vaguely claiming this was true a couple of years ago, can't quickly find newer or better sourced stats)

minusSeven 12y ago

From an Indian perspective Iphone prices in India are really well out of budget of most people. Only people who can afford Iphone go for them. But even then lot of people like to try other options. Android is really dominant here and most people are rather familiar with the Android ecosystems.

msoad 12y ago
That's this article's point. If someone can't afford $600 phone, Apple has no interest in them. Because Apple wants big margins. On other hand, Google is even willing to pay you to use Android to collect your data. They do it with their Android One program in India now.
- prapam2 12y ago
  Apple was giving heavy discounts to attract buyers. High end Samsung costs around same and they have good sales. "Google is even willing to pay you to use Android to collect your data" - where did you get that? Most of the people here buy at full price, we don't have subsidies.

msoad 12y ago

Take me as an example: I'm switching to iOS from a high end Android phone. My main reasons are better privacy and better user experience. My main reason I switched to Android was screen size.

kissickas 12y ago
Do you see Apple as being better for privacy? Sure, Google has my Gmail, but only because I choose to give it to them. I could use anything else on my Android phone. Do you use Firefox, duckduckgo, XPrivacy etc.? Because Apple, in reality, only gives you one choice (even when I was using Opera, Safari would butt in all of the time - I haven't read a word about iOS8 so correct me if I'm wrong), and you're screwed if it doesn't work.
- msoad 12y ago
  My main issue with Android is how app permissions work.
  - MichaelGG 12y ago
    Android's permission model is inexcusably malicious. For instance, the "phone status" permission, that also gives apps the ability to see who you call, read your device ID, etc. There's zero reason that checking to see if the phone is active requires a permission. But by including those very intrusive permissions along with a benign one, Google encourages people to get used to revealing tons of personal information. Google now allows apps to silently add even more permissions, if they are in the "same group". They try to downplay and confuse things as much as possible. It seems highly unlikely this was accidental. This is the main reason I'm disgusted with Google/Android and am doing all I can to stop using their products and services.
    - kissickas 12y ago
      I agree that that is terrible, but I use XPrivacy to combat it. If you don't mind educating me further - what is the state of permissions on iOS? I haven't been using it for a year, but I don't recall any user involvement in allowing or forbidding any permissions at all. Is it better in any way?

jasonwen 12y ago

About the value of Apple vs Android users, it also helps that Apple has an easier payment system with Touch ID. This will only increase in the future. Android however does have introduced a 2-hour money back guarantee on apps. This might increase the spend on apps.

fpgeek 12y ago

One the one hand, this argument sounds plausible. On the other, we've seen this movie before. Remember Verizon? The iPhone 5 (LTE and a screen-size bump)? NTT DoCoMo and China Mobile? These were all supposed to be game-changers. And while they all helped Apple sell plenty of phones, the Android/iPhone game didn't really change. I'm sure the iPhone 6 and 6+ will be very successful. But I'm going to need to see something more before I believe that this time the game really will change.

aetherson 12y ago
I bought my first smartphone about 4.5 years ago. It was an Android because at the time an iPhone meant AT&T, and I didn't want to deal with their network. Two years ago I bought my second smartphone. It was an Android because inertia and also because at the time iOS was really a bit behind Android in terms of things like notifications and useful o/s features. I also bought my first tablet a little more than two years ago. It was an android because Apple didn't have a small tablet then (and because my phone was an android). I'm going to get a new smartphone soon. And you know what? It'll be an Android. Yes, Apple has at this point addressed all the things that pushed me to Android. I could get an iPhone on any network. The o/s has caught back up. They have a small tablet now. But at this point, why would I change? Every time I use an iOS device, in bothered by a ton of small details -- they aren't really flaws, just things that don't work the way I expect. What's the upside? I like Android now. If they had had all those features from the start, it would have been a different story. The flaw in this article is that it presumes that there is a large population of people who are just waiting for that one important feature to come to iOS so they can finally ditch Android. I don't think there are many people like that.

personZ 12y ago

This article is a bit like postulating "Why you might not eat steak for dinner", and then positing reasons that all orbits the assumption that steak is your default choice, and alternatives must therefore have extenuating circumstances. It is an absurd foundation. Did the grocer get more commission selling you chicken? (sidenote: That commission bit appears in every conspiracy laden story about Android's rise, despite having zero empirical evidence. Indeed, many carriers do more to market and pitch the iPhone than any other brand, implying something very different). For most people now, smartphones are largely interchangeable. They really are. You have a browser, can make calls, can access Netflix and your fantasy football app and Facebook and Twitter, etc. An iPhone 6x versus a GS 5, for instance, to many users it is simply a wash. Apple has tried hard to lock people into an ecosystem (Facetime me? No, Skype or Hangouts me please), but those efforts have fallen by the wayside and are becoming more of a hindrance than a benefit. So it comes down to marketing (you know, like having U2 and giving out albums to gain more attention for your keynote) and differentiating features. Apple tried with the "true tone" flash or whatever. HTC is trying the dual-lens camera. Others make their devices waterproof. And so on. It isn't so clear. Further, Ben Evans isn't just a bit of an Apple fan boy -- he is a huge Apple fan boy, with compromised credibility outside of that circle. He got a taste of the Apple aficionado love so now he panders to it fullstop. And given that Evans loves pointing out the payout to developers (then, absurdly calculating per capita metrics because it sells his point), note that the Play Store payout is growing more quickly than the App Store is -- YoY growth in the most recent yearly period was 150%. At current rates the Play Store will payout more than Apple within a year. But of course they're both very lucrative targets, and it would be folly to ignore either, and it's bizarre that this metric even appears in a piece contemplating consumer choices.

pinaceae 12y ago
the true value of the iphone is the Apple ecosystem. i give an rat's ass about android phones, they could be miles ahead - doesn't matter anymore. just a phone. i have an iphone, ipad, apple tv, macbook air and a compatible printer. and everything just works, like magic. i've spent years in the windows ecosystem tinkering. wrote my own sync for my iriver mp3 player, fiddled with regedit and battled drivers. so much lost time. IT bullshit galore. so tired of it. i know that if i want an apple watch i can buy it and it will perfectly into the rest of my devices and just work with them. no other vendor can claim such a value. iOS8 and Yosemite make this crystal clear, the new handover between apps will even work from Apple Watch. Just like that.