3 ms·

The problem presented is very real, but the proposed "solution" is absurd. There are plenty of way functional prison systems. As long as we stop dehumanizing fe

The problem presented is very real, but the proposed "solution" is absurd. There are plenty of way functional prison systems. As long as we stop dehumanizing felons and normalizing crimes against them, I see no reason why reform is impossible.

deleted 12y ago
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jessaustin 12y ago
Reasonable prison systems incarcerate much smaller percentages of their populations than the USA one does. Any reform worth contemplating will result in the release of many prisoners, and the closure of prisons in all but the most overcrowded states.
- Ntrails 12y ago
  Already in the Prison Treatment Act of 1945, the view was expressed that the deprivation of freedom itself should be regarded as the penal element of a prison sentence and not the actual prison experience itself. Thus, the PTA of 1974 states explicitly that an inmate shall be treated with respect for his or her human dignity. [1] As ever when I look for an country that I think will be an example of doing something well, I start with the nordics. And I see that Sweden has recently closed 4 prisons because they don't have enough prisoners to fill them any more. [2] I would love to hear counter points if my cursory reading has missed something - but in general I was once again impressed by the attitudes I see there. [1] http://www.internationalpenalandpenitentiaryfoundation.org/Site/documents/Stavern/29_Stavern_Report%20Sweden.pdf http://www.internationalpenalandpenitentiaryfoundation.org/S... [2]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/11/sweden-closes-prisons-number-inmates-plummets http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/11/sweden-closes-p...
  - reitanqild 12y ago
    Counterpoint: the Norwegian government is considering hiring capacity in the Netherlands for 700 long term prisoners. Sweden is said to have considered hiring capacity as well but decided against because of the legal minefield surrounding this topic. (Edit: Since this is possibly controversial, here are a few Norwegian sources: https://www.google.com/search?q=soning+i+Nederland https://www.google.com/search?q=soning+i+Nederland )
- kazagistar 12y ago
  Agreed. But the reform proposed in the article stated unconditional "abolishment" as the goal. That is crazy.
  - hawleyal 12y ago
    So systemic and institutional torture is fine, as long as the rest of us are marginally "safer".
hawleyal 12y ago
The money for this is not available. It is an ideal that cannot be attained.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  The current system actually costs more to society, so the money is definitely available.

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jessaustin 12y ago

Reasonable prison systems incarcerate much smaller percentages of their populations than the USA one does. Any reform worth contemplating will result in the release of many prisoners, and the closure of prisons in all but the most overcrowded states.

Ntrails 12y ago
Already in the Prison Treatment Act of 1945, the view was expressed that the deprivation of freedom itself should be regarded as the penal element of a prison sentence and not the actual prison experience itself. Thus, the PTA of 1974 states explicitly that an inmate shall be treated with respect for his or her human dignity. [1] As ever when I look for an country that I think will be an example of doing something well, I start with the nordics. And I see that Sweden has recently closed 4 prisons because they don't have enough prisoners to fill them any more. [2] I would love to hear counter points if my cursory reading has missed something - but in general I was once again impressed by the attitudes I see there. [1] http://www.internationalpenalandpenitentiaryfoundation.org/Site/documents/Stavern/29_Stavern_Report%20Sweden.pdf http://www.internationalpenalandpenitentiaryfoundation.org/S... [2]http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/11/sweden-closes-prisons-number-inmates-plummets http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/11/sweden-closes-p...
- reitanqild 12y ago
  Counterpoint: the Norwegian government is considering hiring capacity in the Netherlands for 700 long term prisoners. Sweden is said to have considered hiring capacity as well but decided against because of the legal minefield surrounding this topic. (Edit: Since this is possibly controversial, here are a few Norwegian sources: https://www.google.com/search?q=soning+i+Nederland https://www.google.com/search?q=soning+i+Nederland )
kazagistar 12y ago
Agreed. But the reform proposed in the article stated unconditional "abolishment" as the goal. That is crazy.
- hawleyal 12y ago
  So systemic and institutional torture is fine, as long as the rest of us are marginally "safer".

hawleyal 12y ago

The money for this is not available. It is an ideal that cannot be attained.

jacquesm 12y ago
The current system actually costs more to society, so the money is definitely available.