5 ms·

The article keeps stating that the drivers are declining the disabled person access. In my understanding, they are denying the presence of an animal in their ca

by totony 12y ago

The article keeps stating that the drivers are declining the disabled person access. In my understanding, they are denying the presence of an animal in their car, not necessarily the disabled person. This is an essential difference. Discrimination would be refusing the person due to his disability, whereas this is not discrimination. Uber is right in saying that the disabled person having a dog should mention it to the driver. Fact is, the dog could cause damage to the car, or the driver could be allergic, or the next passenger. Law shouldn't force people to accept such an hindrance, even more when it was not even mentioned.

reverius42 12y ago
IMHO the law should force people to accept such a hindrance, lest we live in a society where those less fortunate or less able are forced to accept all the hindrances instead. Society seems to agree with me -- we do in fact have laws requiring such "hindrances" as accepting service animals: http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/disability/ada.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/disability/ada.htm
- pkaye 12y ago
  I wonder what should happen if the driver is severely allergic to dogs? How would this be resolved?
  - iaw 12y ago
    Read "Where Service Animals Are Allowed" at [1]. My understanding is that a driver with allergens would not be required to take the dog the same way they can exclude a dog from a burn unit. However making a false claim about such things would be against the law. http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
    - chrismcb 12y ago
      From the link you posted:"Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. " They can exclude a dog from a burn unit, because the public is not normally allowed in a burn unit.
  - throwketchup 12y ago
    That might be the reason that service dogs are typically of breeds that are least likely to cause allergic reactions.
  - A_COMPUTER 12y ago
    I've read about this before. In Minneapolis there are some drivers with doctors' notes and you are supposed to tell the dispatcher that you have a dog so that they can be sure to not send one of those drivers. In Cincinnati there was a lawsuit filed over this and the city decided that unless the driver could prove that their allergy was so severe that it rose to the level of itself being an ADA disability, they could not use it as a reason to refuse fare. http://www.nagdu.org/taxis.html http://www.nagdu.org/taxis.html http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29312754.html http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29312754.html In one case it is explicitly mentioned, and in another tangentially, that some people have refused rides to people with dogs on religious grounds as Islam considers contact with dogs to be very objectionable, using allergies as an excuse. I read the recent filing and it didn't mention anything specifically about that though. Included below for completeness: http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/ca/NationalFederationoftheBlindvUber.pdf http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/ca/NationalFederationoftheBlindvU...
_delirium 12y ago
In most jurisdictions, laws do typically require seeing-eye dogs to be exempted from "no pets" / "no animals" requirements, with some exceptions.
Iftheshoefits 12y ago
> In my understanding, they are denying the presence of an animal in their car, not necessarily the disabled person. Your understanding is incorrect, because denying the presence of the animal is identical to denying the dependent disabled person because he's disabled. The two are inextricably linked together.
- lazylizard 12y ago
  its a bit like saying hearing-impaired people can't take the ride if they bring their hearing aid along.
- totony 12y ago
  Imo there is a difference, as the motive for not allowing the person is different. Morality is majorly about motives.
  - ASneakyFox 12y ago
    I agree there's a difference. As the objection is not to the person. But being that the person needs a dog to go anywhere in public the two are very intertwined. Also itd serve as loophole to discriminate since many blind people have service dogs.
iaw 12y ago
I think you may be a bit ignorant of the law here. Read 'where service animals are allowed' at [1]. The American Disabilities Act states pretty clearly that to deny reasonable accommodations to disabled people is illegal. To create an analog to your argument. Lets say an individual is in a wheelchair and a store doesn't have ramp accessibility. In your argument, it would be perfectly fine for the individual to abandon their chair and crawl into the store because the store isn't barring that individual from entry. The issue in this analog (as with your argument) is that for the disabled person to function they need access to their wheelchair (or dog). Denying access for the dog is equivalent to denying access to wheelchairs which is equivalent to denying access to the individual. [1] http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
- totony 12y ago
  Here, the ramp is a specific accomodation for the disabled person. A better analogy would be a scenario where law would require every stairs accessing the building (driver) to have an associated ramp (allowing dogs). For Uber, in my opinion, certain "dogs-allowed" cars should be added (as suggested somewhere else in this thread), but not every driver should be required to allow them. Also, I was stating that law SHOULDN'T force people. Not that it doesn't.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - ASneakyFox 12y ago
    Not all drivers have to allow dogs in their car. Just the ones who drive people places as a business. Buildings are the same way. Most residential homes do not have ramps unless some one lives there who needs it.

by totony 12y ago

reverius42 12y ago

IMHO the law should force people to accept such a hindrance, lest we live in a society where those less fortunate or less able are forced to accept all the hindrances instead. Society seems to agree with me -- we do in fact have laws requiring such "hindrances" as accepting service animals: http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/disability/ada.htm http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/disability/ada.htm

pkaye 12y ago
I wonder what should happen if the driver is severely allergic to dogs? How would this be resolved?
- iaw 12y ago
  Read "Where Service Animals Are Allowed" at [1]. My understanding is that a driver with allergens would not be required to take the dog the same way they can exclude a dog from a burn unit. However making a false claim about such things would be against the law. http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm
  - chrismcb 12y ago
    From the link you posted:"Allergies and fear of dogs are not valid reasons for denying access or refusing service to people using service animals. " They can exclude a dog from a burn unit, because the public is not normally allowed in a burn unit.
- throwketchup 12y ago
  That might be the reason that service dogs are typically of breeds that are least likely to cause allergic reactions.
- A_COMPUTER 12y ago
  I've read about this before. In Minneapolis there are some drivers with doctors' notes and you are supposed to tell the dispatcher that you have a dog so that they can be sure to not send one of those drivers. In Cincinnati there was a lawsuit filed over this and the city decided that unless the driver could prove that their allergy was so severe that it rose to the level of itself being an ADA disability, they could not use it as a reason to refuse fare. http://www.nagdu.org/taxis.html http://www.nagdu.org/taxis.html http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29312754.html http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29312754.html In one case it is explicitly mentioned, and in another tangentially, that some people have refused rides to people with dogs on religious grounds as Islam considers contact with dogs to be very objectionable, using allergies as an excuse. I read the recent filing and it didn't mention anything specifically about that though. Included below for completeness: http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/ca/NationalFederationoftheBlindvUber.pdf http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/ca/NationalFederationoftheBlindvU...

_delirium 12y ago

In most jurisdictions, laws do typically require seeing-eye dogs to be exempted from "no pets" / "no animals" requirements, with some exceptions.

Iftheshoefits 12y ago

> In my understanding, they are denying the presence of an animal in their car, not necessarily the disabled person. Your understanding is incorrect, because denying the presence of the animal is identical to denying the dependent disabled person because he's disabled. The two are inextricably linked together.

lazylizard 12y ago
its a bit like saying hearing-impaired people can't take the ride if they bring their hearing aid along.
totony 12y ago
Imo there is a difference, as the motive for not allowing the person is different. Morality is majorly about motives.
- ASneakyFox 12y ago
  I agree there's a difference. As the objection is not to the person. But being that the person needs a dog to go anywhere in public the two are very intertwined. Also itd serve as loophole to discriminate since many blind people have service dogs.

iaw 12y ago

I think you may be a bit ignorant of the law here. Read 'where service animals are allowed' at [1]. The American Disabilities Act states pretty clearly that to deny reasonable accommodations to disabled people is illegal. To create an analog to your argument. Lets say an individual is in a wheelchair and a store doesn't have ramp accessibility. In your argument, it would be perfectly fine for the individual to abandon their chair and crawl into the store because the store isn't barring that individual from entry. The issue in this analog (as with your argument) is that for the disabled person to function they need access to their wheelchair (or dog). Denying access for the dog is equivalent to denying access to wheelchairs which is equivalent to denying access to the individual. [1] http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm http://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

totony 12y ago
Here, the ramp is a specific accomodation for the disabled person. A better analogy would be a scenario where law would require every stairs accessing the building (driver) to have an associated ramp (allowing dogs). For Uber, in my opinion, certain "dogs-allowed" cars should be added (as suggested somewhere else in this thread), but not every driver should be required to allow them. Also, I was stating that law SHOULDN'T force people. Not that it doesn't.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- ASneakyFox 12y ago
  Not all drivers have to allow dogs in their car. Just the ones who drive people places as a business. Buildings are the same way. Most residential homes do not have ramps unless some one lives there who needs it.