11 ms·

I'm one of those bikers who hates sharing roadways with cars. It's not that I have to share, but between taking up so much of the road, pure safety concerns for

by soperj 12y ago

I'm one of those bikers who hates sharing roadways with cars. It's not that I have to share, but between taking up so much of the road, pure safety concerns for bikers(since automobile drivers win every single colition) and generally shitty entitled attitude lots of car drivers seem to have (most likely because there are more of them so they think they own the road) I get my hackles raised every time I see one on the roads. Automobiles aren't bikes no matter how much we debate about it. They shouldn't be sharing the roads with bikes. I see more people driving break the law every day while driving then I've ever seen bikers do in my entire life. People are jerks regardless of what they use to commute with.

fidlefodl 12y ago
> I see more people driving break the law every day while driving then I've ever seen bikers do in my entire life. People are jerks regardless of what they use to commute with. I don't think he (or many) would claim otherwise. The issue isn't the people who ride bikes, but rather the mode they choose to travel with and the impact it has on your drive. Bikers cause all sorts of added danger to both themselves, and you as a driver. If you have a moment of human error in car-v-car, you're very likely to have both parties walk away from the incident. You call your insurance(s), your rates go up a bit, and your life moves on. Accidents are very, very common. Repeat this same scenario in car-v-biker, and the odds quickly swing towards it being a life endangering accident. It's just a step away from hitting a pedestrian. I don't dislike bikers because they slow me down or anything like that. I dislike them because of the likely increase in severity for almost all car-v-biker accidents. edit: Interesting, seems i am getting downvotes for my opinion. Care to explain your thoughts? I can't imagine you (downvoters) feel that car-v-biker is an equal risk compared to car-v-car, do you?
- everyone 12y ago
  Various car related taxes and levies dont even begin to finanace the cost of road building and maintainance. Most of that comes from VAT and income tax.
  - fidlefodl 12y ago
    I'm not sure what you're referring to. Are you replying to the wrong topic? I wasn't speaking anything about taxes, just personal opinion on the danger of car-v-biker/pedestrian accidents.
- mjmahone17 12y ago
  Then you should be in favor of increasing biking infrastructure so that you're much less likely to make a mistake involving a bicyclist. But all the things you've said are equally true about pedestrians, which is a more dangerous, per-mile-travelled, mode of transportation than biking. And bike lanes in NY make pedestrians safer, too. As a driver, it is your responsibility to manage a two-thousand-pound weapon responsibly. As you have the most power to cause harm, you also have the most responsibility to prevent it. The biggest problem with vehicles in the US is that you're "entitled" to drive without learning how dangerous you are to everyone around you, and how to navigate that danger safely. And when a motorists causes a fatal "accident" (due to texting, medical conditions, etc.), they are almost never at fault, and their driving privilege is rarely revoked. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/opinion/sunday/is-it-ok-to-kill-cyclists.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/opinion/sunday/is-it-ok-to...
  - fidlefodl 12y ago
    > Then you should be in favor of increasing biking infrastructure so that you're much less likely to make a mistake involving a bicyclist. Of course i am. Not sure what made anyone think i'm not in favor of it. Guess opinions are bad-form around this place :P > As a driver, it is your responsibility to manage a two-thousand-pound weapon responsibly. As you have the most power to cause harm, you also have the most responsibility to prevent it. The biggest problem with vehicles in the US is that you're "entitled" to drive without learning how dangerous you are to everyone around you, and how to navigate that danger safely. You seem to think my post was entitled, it's not. It's my opinion that i don't like them. I also do not like pedestrians jaywalking, but that doesn't mean i'm entitled. I would prefer to reduce risk by means that this article lays out. I don't like things that increase risk. Bikers in my lane, infront of my "two-thousand-pound weapon" simply increase risk. It's like gun safety. I don't put my finger on the trigger until i'm ready to fire. You (and i assume the downvoters?) seem to think that just because i express my opinion, that i would attempt to ban bikers from the roads completely. Far from it.
    - osconfused 12y ago
      America is the only place in the world where jaywalking is a crime. The notion there is a correct route between two points is rather bizarre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking
- bane 12y ago
  Right. I don't get it. Bikers put themselves out in purposely dangerous environments and then are mystified and upset when they get hurt and angry at the environment they chose to ride in. I have absolutely zero patience for that kind of idiotic selfishness. If somebody wants to ride a bike and wants to lobby for better bike riding infrastructure, I will be right there with them, even if it raises my taxes.
  - 7952 12y ago
    Its much more fun than driving. You can go as fast as you want and you don't have to wait in traffic jams.
keepper 12y ago
Except I pay for the roads.. you know.. registration, taxes on gas, taxes on purchase of the car, etc etc... But hey, you're welcome to pay a little for the roads too ;)
- recursive 12y ago
  Most bicyclists pay all those things as well. Additionally, in many states, roads are mostly paid for by other sources.
- TulliusCicero 12y ago
  Cars also inflict many externalities onto others that other forms of transportation do not (pollution, increased travel distance, injuries and deaths, etc.), and yet drivers seem less keen on paying extra to compensate for those costs.
  - seanflyon 12y ago
    And wear and tear on the road is approximately proportional to weight and speed so bikes make almost no contribution to road wear, which is the primary cost of our road system.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    About 29,000 people die from air pollution in the UK and about 1 in 4 of those may have been from traffic pollution. But death is cheap and people living longer with worse quality of life with COPD or similar costs money. http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/apr/29/diesel-engine-pollution-premature-deaths-costs-nhs-billions http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/apr/29/diesel-en...
  - sedachv 12y ago
    The biggest externality cost in the United States by far is parking. Many cities have mandatory parking space requirements for businesses that impact not just new developments but re-purposing of existing properties (ex: restaurants must provide so-and-so many free parking spaces per thousand square feet; you have to do this even if you're converting an existing property into a restaurant). This is a huge pain for a lot of people trying to open small businesses. This is more of a zoning issue though (I think mandatory parking ordinances should be repealed and all parking should be privatized).
bane 12y ago
Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right? Would you walk in the middle of the road? No, because that's idiotic and stupid. But sit on a few pounds of rubber and tubed aluminum, travel only slightly faster than the same moronic pedestrian and now it's a smart commuting idea? You've chosen to go out and share the roads that were built for cars and decided for every driver (who are actually entitled to be on the road in their cars) on the same road as you that they're responsible for your safety. And then you've decided to inconvenience every single one of them by clumsily pedaling you and your contraption into a position where you are blocking cars from traveling at the designated speed the road was designed and built for. In no other social interaction is any such similar selfish behavior even remotely tolerated. I mean, imagine I decided to take up a hobby called "being a cat" and then I come to your workplace and just decided to sit on your desk, and block your keyboard, take over your chair, push you out of queues and otherwise disrupt what you need to be doing. But it's okay, I'm entitled to do this because I randomly picked my hobby and don't you dare be cross with me when I knock your monitor on the floor and prevent you from doing your work. In fact, I have a better hobby. It's called "tack throwing". I'm going to go out to my local bike trails and take this hobby up. Where I throw handfuls of thumbtacks in front of all the bikers and fuck them because that's my hobby now and they shouldn't be riding their bikes on my tack throwing field.
- DanBC 12y ago
  > Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right? No, they were not. They were built for horses - with and without carriages - and bicycles and motorbikes and cars and vans and trucks and buses. > You've chosen to go out and share the roads that were built for cars Criminal offence for cyclists to use the pavement.
  - bane 12y ago
    I can absolutely guarantee you that not a single road within 10 miles of my home was built for a horse or carriage and maybe 3% have history back to pre-auto time periods. They were built specifically for automobiles travelling at speed.
vonmoltke 12y ago
> I see more people driving break the law every day while driving then I've ever seen bikers do in my entire life. People are jerks regardless of what they use to commute with. I see more people driving breaking the law every day while driving than I have ever seen bikers in the road, not counting the peloton from the local bike store. Speaking in absolute numbers in this case isn't meaningful, because in most areas of the US the number of people using cars for transportation far, far exceeds the number using bicycles.

by soperj 12y ago

fidlefodl 12y ago

> I see more people driving break the law every day while driving then I've ever seen bikers do in my entire life. People are jerks regardless of what they use to commute with. I don't think he (or many) would claim otherwise. The issue isn't the people who ride bikes, but rather the mode they choose to travel with and the impact it has on your drive. Bikers cause all sorts of added danger to both themselves, and you as a driver. If you have a moment of human error in car-v-car, you're very likely to have both parties walk away from the incident. You call your insurance(s), your rates go up a bit, and your life moves on. Accidents are very, very common. Repeat this same scenario in car-v-biker, and the odds quickly swing towards it being a life endangering accident. It's just a step away from hitting a pedestrian. I don't dislike bikers because they slow me down or anything like that. I dislike them because of the likely increase in severity for almost all car-v-biker accidents. edit: Interesting, seems i am getting downvotes for my opinion. Care to explain your thoughts? I can't imagine you (downvoters) feel that car-v-biker is an equal risk compared to car-v-car, do you?

everyone 12y ago
Various car related taxes and levies dont even begin to finanace the cost of road building and maintainance. Most of that comes from VAT and income tax.
- fidlefodl 12y ago
  I'm not sure what you're referring to. Are you replying to the wrong topic? I wasn't speaking anything about taxes, just personal opinion on the danger of car-v-biker/pedestrian accidents.
mjmahone17 12y ago
Then you should be in favor of increasing biking infrastructure so that you're much less likely to make a mistake involving a bicyclist. But all the things you've said are equally true about pedestrians, which is a more dangerous, per-mile-travelled, mode of transportation than biking. And bike lanes in NY make pedestrians safer, too. As a driver, it is your responsibility to manage a two-thousand-pound weapon responsibly. As you have the most power to cause harm, you also have the most responsibility to prevent it. The biggest problem with vehicles in the US is that you're "entitled" to drive without learning how dangerous you are to everyone around you, and how to navigate that danger safely. And when a motorists causes a fatal "accident" (due to texting, medical conditions, etc.), they are almost never at fault, and their driving privilege is rarely revoked. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/opinion/sunday/is-it-ok-to-kill-cyclists.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/10/opinion/sunday/is-it-ok-to...
- fidlefodl 12y ago
  > Then you should be in favor of increasing biking infrastructure so that you're much less likely to make a mistake involving a bicyclist. Of course i am. Not sure what made anyone think i'm not in favor of it. Guess opinions are bad-form around this place :P > As a driver, it is your responsibility to manage a two-thousand-pound weapon responsibly. As you have the most power to cause harm, you also have the most responsibility to prevent it. The biggest problem with vehicles in the US is that you're "entitled" to drive without learning how dangerous you are to everyone around you, and how to navigate that danger safely. You seem to think my post was entitled, it's not. It's my opinion that i don't like them. I also do not like pedestrians jaywalking, but that doesn't mean i'm entitled. I would prefer to reduce risk by means that this article lays out. I don't like things that increase risk. Bikers in my lane, infront of my "two-thousand-pound weapon" simply increase risk. It's like gun safety. I don't put my finger on the trigger until i'm ready to fire. You (and i assume the downvoters?) seem to think that just because i express my opinion, that i would attempt to ban bikers from the roads completely. Far from it.
  - osconfused 12y ago
    America is the only place in the world where jaywalking is a crime. The notion there is a correct route between two points is rather bizarre. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking
bane 12y ago
Right. I don't get it. Bikers put themselves out in purposely dangerous environments and then are mystified and upset when they get hurt and angry at the environment they chose to ride in. I have absolutely zero patience for that kind of idiotic selfishness. If somebody wants to ride a bike and wants to lobby for better bike riding infrastructure, I will be right there with them, even if it raises my taxes.
- 7952 12y ago
  Its much more fun than driving. You can go as fast as you want and you don't have to wait in traffic jams.

keepper 12y ago

Except I pay for the roads.. you know.. registration, taxes on gas, taxes on purchase of the car, etc etc... But hey, you're welcome to pay a little for the roads too ;)

recursive 12y ago
Most bicyclists pay all those things as well. Additionally, in many states, roads are mostly paid for by other sources.
TulliusCicero 12y ago
Cars also inflict many externalities onto others that other forms of transportation do not (pollution, increased travel distance, injuries and deaths, etc.), and yet drivers seem less keen on paying extra to compensate for those costs.
- seanflyon 12y ago
  And wear and tear on the road is approximately proportional to weight and speed so bikes make almost no contribution to road wear, which is the primary cost of our road system.
- DanBC 12y ago
  About 29,000 people die from air pollution in the UK and about 1 in 4 of those may have been from traffic pollution. But death is cheap and people living longer with worse quality of life with COPD or similar costs money. http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/apr/29/diesel-engine-pollution-premature-deaths-costs-nhs-billions http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/apr/29/diesel-en...
- sedachv 12y ago
  The biggest externality cost in the United States by far is parking. Many cities have mandatory parking space requirements for businesses that impact not just new developments but re-purposing of existing properties (ex: restaurants must provide so-and-so many free parking spaces per thousand square feet; you have to do this even if you're converting an existing property into a restaurant). This is a huge pain for a lot of people trying to open small businesses. This is more of a zoning issue though (I think mandatory parking ordinances should be repealed and all parking should be privatized).

bane 12y ago

Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right? Would you walk in the middle of the road? No, because that's idiotic and stupid. But sit on a few pounds of rubber and tubed aluminum, travel only slightly faster than the same moronic pedestrian and now it's a smart commuting idea? You've chosen to go out and share the roads that were built for cars and decided for every driver (who are actually entitled to be on the road in their cars) on the same road as you that they're responsible for your safety. And then you've decided to inconvenience every single one of them by clumsily pedaling you and your contraption into a position where you are blocking cars from traveling at the designated speed the road was designed and built for. In no other social interaction is any such similar selfish behavior even remotely tolerated. I mean, imagine I decided to take up a hobby called "being a cat" and then I come to your workplace and just decided to sit on your desk, and block your keyboard, take over your chair, push you out of queues and otherwise disrupt what you need to be doing. But it's okay, I'm entitled to do this because I randomly picked my hobby and don't you dare be cross with me when I knock your monitor on the floor and prevent you from doing your work. In fact, I have a better hobby. It's called "tack throwing". I'm going to go out to my local bike trails and take this hobby up. Where I throw handfuls of thumbtacks in front of all the bikers and fuck them because that's my hobby now and they shouldn't be riding their bikes on my tack throwing field.

DanBC 12y ago
> Well, you are aware that the roads were built for cars right? No, they were not. They were built for horses - with and without carriages - and bicycles and motorbikes and cars and vans and trucks and buses. > You've chosen to go out and share the roads that were built for cars Criminal offence for cyclists to use the pavement.
- bane 12y ago
  I can absolutely guarantee you that not a single road within 10 miles of my home was built for a horse or carriage and maybe 3% have history back to pre-auto time periods. They were built specifically for automobiles travelling at speed.

vonmoltke 12y ago

> I see more people driving break the law every day while driving then I've ever seen bikers do in my entire life. People are jerks regardless of what they use to commute with. I see more people driving breaking the law every day while driving than I have ever seen bikers in the road, not counting the peloton from the local bike store. Speaking in absolute numbers in this case isn't meaningful, because in most areas of the US the number of people using cars for transportation far, far exceeds the number using bicycles.