4 ms·

Of course systemd works, and works well, it is in RHEL7 and the clones (the 'EL' world), it has to work! And be maintained for 10 years. That 10 year support ho

Of course systemd works, and works well, it is in RHEL7 and the clones (the 'EL' world), it has to work! And be maintained for 10 years. That 10 year support horizon rolls forwards each release. At the philosophical level, does anyone not have mild concerns about the binding together of large parts of the underlying systems and the general loss of modularity? At the coal face do any sysadmins really value the new logging and monitoring tools? One metric might be the speed adoption of EL7 by those currently using EL6 and EL5. A high speed of adoption means general happiness (or just need for newer packages). A low speed of adoption means unhappiness (or just no pressing need to upgrade).

suprjami 12y ago
Adoption by large enterprise customers follows different patterns than you seem to expect. Right now (7.0) an "early adopter" will be planning certification with a probable production rollout for 7.2. I expect there will be another rise in usage with 7.4.
- keithpeter 12y ago
  Great, so we have a profile to measure expected take up against what actually happens. I didn't mean to suggest that the EL market would upgrade overnight, I was thinking of a profile spread over time and reflecting corporate schedules.
Sanddancer 12y ago
The logging and monitoring tools are /worse/ than in a BSD or SysV init situation. Journald, as opposed to rsyslog and syslog-ng, can't talk to other systems in anywhere near a sane manner, can't connect to databases, has no ability to filter and direct messages, etc. On top of that, it makes core dumps require root privileges to analyze them, making user level development and debugging more difficult. Systemd has a heavy, heavy stink of someone from the desktop realm coming in with no knowledge of what tools sysadmins already use, and screwing everything up in the process.
- kiyoto 12y ago
  >The logging and monitoring tools are /worse/ than in a BSD or SysV init situation. Journald, as opposed to rsyslog and syslog-ng I have to agree. I am one of the main people to support Fluentd (an open source log collector https://www.fluentd.org https://www.fluentd.org), and a lot of people do forward rsyslog/syslog-ng to Fluentd for further processing/analytics. We've been trying to figure out a way to do the same with journald, and while it does seem possible, it will require a ton more work.
- keithpeter 12y ago
  Redhat employ the core systemd developers, and RHEL is mainly a server product. Senior Redhat people must understand the issues and have decided to go with this system for a reason. I'm just wondering what the reason was! One of them has just jumped ship to Google mind you!

suprjami 12y ago

Adoption by large enterprise customers follows different patterns than you seem to expect. Right now (7.0) an "early adopter" will be planning certification with a probable production rollout for 7.2. I expect there will be another rise in usage with 7.4.

keithpeter 12y ago
Great, so we have a profile to measure expected take up against what actually happens. I didn't mean to suggest that the EL market would upgrade overnight, I was thinking of a profile spread over time and reflecting corporate schedules.

Sanddancer 12y ago

The logging and monitoring tools are /worse/ than in a BSD or SysV init situation. Journald, as opposed to rsyslog and syslog-ng, can't talk to other systems in anywhere near a sane manner, can't connect to databases, has no ability to filter and direct messages, etc. On top of that, it makes core dumps require root privileges to analyze them, making user level development and debugging more difficult. Systemd has a heavy, heavy stink of someone from the desktop realm coming in with no knowledge of what tools sysadmins already use, and screwing everything up in the process.

kiyoto 12y ago
>The logging and monitoring tools are /worse/ than in a BSD or SysV init situation. Journald, as opposed to rsyslog and syslog-ng I have to agree. I am one of the main people to support Fluentd (an open source log collector https://www.fluentd.org https://www.fluentd.org), and a lot of people do forward rsyslog/syslog-ng to Fluentd for further processing/analytics. We've been trying to figure out a way to do the same with journald, and while it does seem possible, it will require a ton more work.
keithpeter 12y ago
Redhat employ the core systemd developers, and RHEL is mainly a server product. Senior Redhat people must understand the issues and have decided to go with this system for a reason. I'm just wondering what the reason was! One of them has just jumped ship to Google mind you!