4 ms·

It's a beautifully quirky institution with a lot of character, whose intent and principle effect is to prevent people from entering into an honest trade to the

by patio11 12y ago

It's a beautifully quirky institution with a lot of character, whose intent and principle effect is to prevent people from entering into an honest trade to the advantage of their families and customers. It is very easy to distinguish between an Uber and a black cab, so if black cabs are systematically better than the combination of Google and a GPS, the market will work it out in a few weeks.

DanBC 12y ago
> It's a beautifully quirky institution with a lot of character, whose intent and principle effect is to prevent people from entering into an honest trade to the advantage of their families and customers. This test is only for people wishing to drive Black cabs. This test does not exist for drivers other regular taxis in London. Very many taxi companies exist and people are free to drive for those companies. Uber wants to operate as a black cab without the protections to the fare paying passengers that black cabs offer. For example: all black cabs are wheelchair accessible. Almost no Uber cars are. I'm not sure how Uber manages to generate so much hype around restrictive business regulation when there's nothing preventing them operating as licensed taxis in London. Nothing, that is, apart from their desire to use untested unregulated uncalibrated software to meter the rides.
- UK-AL 12y ago
  "untested unregulated uncalibrated software" like any other GPS system that millions of people and truck drivers rely on everyday without issue?
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Those drivers aren't using the software to charge people, and that's where regulation gets involved. Just as grocers have calibrated scales to weigh items for charging cab drivers have calibrated meters which prevent tampering and ensure known pricing.
- baddox 12y ago
  > Uber wants to operate as a black cab without the protections to the fare paying passengers that black cabs offer. For example: all black cabs are wheelchair accessible. Almost no Uber cars are. Wouldn't that only be an issue if the customer was unaware that Uber cars aren't guaranteed to be accessible? That seems like a peculiar example to use, because for each customer the worst case scenario would be calling an Uber once, realizing it's not accessible, then always using the licensed black cabs from then on.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    Black cabs get some advantages. In return they have to provide extra services that other taxis do not. If Uber wants the advantages that Black cabs get they need to provide all the services a Black cab provides - in this example all black cabs can take a wheelchair. Thus, if Uber wNts the same advantages granted to Black cabs they need to have a fully wheelchair accessible fleet. If Uber is unwilling to provide that they are free to compete with regular licensed taxis without getting the advantages provided to black cabs.
  - frobozz 12y ago
    Black cabs have a monopoly on hailing and taximeters at the cost of certain regulations. Wheelchair access is one of those regulations. Other obvious ones include TfL-set fares, and the requirement to accept any fare within a certain radius. The latter two regulations are likely to engender a "who cares" response - the TfL fares are (currently) higher than Uber, and the nature of Uber hailing means that the vehicle you board will take you to your requested destination. Uber enables smartphone-based hailing and uncertified taximeters, without enforcing the other rules. Therefore, all the advantages of both minicabs and taxis are available to the operator, but without the disadvantages peculiar to each. You might say that this workaround is a clever disruption of an established, outdated business model, but if Uber drives a significant number of cabbies out of business, then how are independent wheelchair users going to get around efficiently? Buses are already overcrowded at peak times, and not all physically disabled people are as agile as Bumper Harris.
- easytiger 12y ago
  For some reason it's controversial but you are correct. Uber do not provide a fare in advance, as with all private mini cabs in the UK. They are doing a metered service which I understood to be illegal except for black cabs. It's pretty simple. My main worry is the demise of cheap local cab firms. You can easily get a fare 40% less than Addison Lee or a black cab by going to your local cab firm. Indeed many bars and clubs have a legal requirement to station a taxi attendant outside to make sure people can get home safe at 4am (black cabs will be impossible at that time for most areas).
  - iamwithnail 12y ago
    Valid concern, tbh - but I guess (at least in London), you've got three/four tiers of cabs now - Black Cabs, Uber, Kabbee/TaxiCabit registered minicabs, and tiny local firms that aren't on those systems - I suspect it might be the last ones that either get squashed out or forced onto the new tech. (Also - try getting a blac cab to take you back to Peckham from the centre of London basically any time after 6pm, nightmare. /sarfovdarivva)
    - easytiger 12y ago
      > (Also - try getting a blac cab to take you back to Peckham from the centre of London basically any time after 6pm Yup. in fact I was standing outside a restaurant on the Strand at 1am recently. The doorman of the restaurant was trying to hail us and the group behind us a cab. Cab pulls up, hears destination, and drives off. They do this fast so you don't have time to grab their number and report them (which i encourage everyone to do should they refuse a fair). Of course if the Taxi driver had realised it was for Alan Rickman and Zoe Wannamaker then perhaps he may have changed his mind.
- rahimnathwani 12y ago
  The taxi driver monopoly doesn't just affect other transport providers. It affects regular drivers, too, who are not permitted to use roads as fully. I used to drive on this road each day, on the way home from work: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-15537747 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-15537747 Occasionally a taxi would zoom past, able to save 15-20 minutes vs. my own journey time, by skipping the heavy traffic.
hcho 12y ago
> prevent people from entering into an honest trade to the advantage of their families and customers ...and to detriment of the rest of the population. Most of London is still based on its medieval city plan(ie no plan exists) and the carrying capacity of the roads are particularly lower compared to similarly sized cities. Controlling the number vehicles which do abrupt stops is a good idea.

by patio11 12y ago

DanBC 12y ago

> It's a beautifully quirky institution with a lot of character, whose intent and principle effect is to prevent people from entering into an honest trade to the advantage of their families and customers. This test is only for people wishing to drive Black cabs. This test does not exist for drivers other regular taxis in London. Very many taxi companies exist and people are free to drive for those companies. Uber wants to operate as a black cab without the protections to the fare paying passengers that black cabs offer. For example: all black cabs are wheelchair accessible. Almost no Uber cars are. I'm not sure how Uber manages to generate so much hype around restrictive business regulation when there's nothing preventing them operating as licensed taxis in London. Nothing, that is, apart from their desire to use untested unregulated uncalibrated software to meter the rides.

UK-AL 12y ago
"untested unregulated uncalibrated software" like any other GPS system that millions of people and truck drivers rely on everyday without issue?
- DanBC 12y ago
  Those drivers aren't using the software to charge people, and that's where regulation gets involved. Just as grocers have calibrated scales to weigh items for charging cab drivers have calibrated meters which prevent tampering and ensure known pricing.
baddox 12y ago
> Uber wants to operate as a black cab without the protections to the fare paying passengers that black cabs offer. For example: all black cabs are wheelchair accessible. Almost no Uber cars are. Wouldn't that only be an issue if the customer was unaware that Uber cars aren't guaranteed to be accessible? That seems like a peculiar example to use, because for each customer the worst case scenario would be calling an Uber once, realizing it's not accessible, then always using the licensed black cabs from then on.
- DanBC 12y ago
  Black cabs get some advantages. In return they have to provide extra services that other taxis do not. If Uber wants the advantages that Black cabs get they need to provide all the services a Black cab provides - in this example all black cabs can take a wheelchair. Thus, if Uber wNts the same advantages granted to Black cabs they need to have a fully wheelchair accessible fleet. If Uber is unwilling to provide that they are free to compete with regular licensed taxis without getting the advantages provided to black cabs.
- frobozz 12y ago
  Black cabs have a monopoly on hailing and taximeters at the cost of certain regulations. Wheelchair access is one of those regulations. Other obvious ones include TfL-set fares, and the requirement to accept any fare within a certain radius. The latter two regulations are likely to engender a "who cares" response - the TfL fares are (currently) higher than Uber, and the nature of Uber hailing means that the vehicle you board will take you to your requested destination. Uber enables smartphone-based hailing and uncertified taximeters, without enforcing the other rules. Therefore, all the advantages of both minicabs and taxis are available to the operator, but without the disadvantages peculiar to each. You might say that this workaround is a clever disruption of an established, outdated business model, but if Uber drives a significant number of cabbies out of business, then how are independent wheelchair users going to get around efficiently? Buses are already overcrowded at peak times, and not all physically disabled people are as agile as Bumper Harris.
easytiger 12y ago
For some reason it's controversial but you are correct. Uber do not provide a fare in advance, as with all private mini cabs in the UK. They are doing a metered service which I understood to be illegal except for black cabs. It's pretty simple. My main worry is the demise of cheap local cab firms. You can easily get a fare 40% less than Addison Lee or a black cab by going to your local cab firm. Indeed many bars and clubs have a legal requirement to station a taxi attendant outside to make sure people can get home safe at 4am (black cabs will be impossible at that time for most areas).
- iamwithnail 12y ago
  Valid concern, tbh - but I guess (at least in London), you've got three/four tiers of cabs now - Black Cabs, Uber, Kabbee/TaxiCabit registered minicabs, and tiny local firms that aren't on those systems - I suspect it might be the last ones that either get squashed out or forced onto the new tech. (Also - try getting a blac cab to take you back to Peckham from the centre of London basically any time after 6pm, nightmare. /sarfovdarivva)
  - easytiger 12y ago
    > (Also - try getting a blac cab to take you back to Peckham from the centre of London basically any time after 6pm Yup. in fact I was standing outside a restaurant on the Strand at 1am recently. The doorman of the restaurant was trying to hail us and the group behind us a cab. Cab pulls up, hears destination, and drives off. They do this fast so you don't have time to grab their number and report them (which i encourage everyone to do should they refuse a fair). Of course if the Taxi driver had realised it was for Alan Rickman and Zoe Wannamaker then perhaps he may have changed his mind.
rahimnathwani 12y ago
The taxi driver monopoly doesn't just affect other transport providers. It affects regular drivers, too, who are not permitted to use roads as fully. I used to drive on this road each day, on the way home from work: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-15537747 http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-15537747 Occasionally a taxi would zoom past, able to save 15-20 minutes vs. my own journey time, by skipping the heavy traffic.

hcho 12y ago

> prevent people from entering into an honest trade to the advantage of their families and customers ...and to detriment of the rest of the population. Most of London is still based on its medieval city plan(ie no plan exists) and the carrying capacity of the roads are particularly lower compared to similarly sized cities. Controlling the number vehicles which do abrupt stops is a good idea.