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“the iPod succeeded because of a synergy with other parts of Apple's empire” That is absolute crap. iTunes had no foothold to speak of in the marketplace. The

“the iPod succeeded because of a synergy with other parts of Apple's empire” That is absolute crap. iTunes had no foothold to speak of in the marketplace. The notion of Apple having an "empire" at the time of the iPod’s release (or even at the time of the iPod’s mainstream success) was laughable.

bduerst 12y ago
You are wrong. iTunes was such a monumental hit that it carried iPods with it - there's even a business case on the matter: http://hbr.org/product/apple-inc-ipods-and-itunes/an/905M46-PDF-ENG http://hbr.org/product/apple-inc-ipods-and-itunes/an/905M46-...
- free2rhyme214 12y ago
  The best way to win an argument is to avoid one. I've learned that this works with women as well.
JohnTHaller 12y ago
It absolutely did. You may have forgotten, but the early success of iTunes/iPod was in being able to organize your music and get it on your device. iTunes/iPod was the first to really get this right on any kind of scale. And, compared to the competition of the time, they really nailed it. So, a phone that had that integrated was a really big deal, even if it couldn't run any apps (as the first iPhone did and couldn't).
- nardi 12y ago
  GGP is talking about the iPod, not the iPhone. GP is right that iTunes had no foothold when the iPod was released, and Apple had no "empire."
  - personZ 12y ago
    How did this suddenly get redefined to "when released"? If that is the case, Taco's widely criticized assessment was dead on - the iPod was initially a failure. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Total_ipod_sales.svg http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Total_ipod_sales.svg We know that it took off, but that was wholly on the back of iTunes - 0.99 tracks and much easier use than competitors sold the iPod, not some fundamental excellence of the device. People forget now but while we revile iTunes generally now, at the time it was the killer feature of the iPod, and the initial iPhone success.
- tomcorrigan 12y ago
  The first generation iPod was Mac only. The 2nd generation iPod was Mac + Windows but iTunes was still Mac only. Windows syncing was done with third party software (Musicmatch Jukebox) iTunes did not have a foothold in the marketplace until after the success of the iPod was evident.
  - deeviant 12y ago
    The ipod was a complete failure when it was Mac only, and it didn't start picking up steam until iTunes was on windows. When it did start picking up steam, it was ipod and itunes together that sky-rocketed in unison, which seems to lend credence to the idea that it was the itunes ecosystem in conjunction with the ipod hardware that created success for apple in that space. As far as you "success of the ipod was evident" comment, that seems like solid case of hindsight on your part.
- beedogs 12y ago
  There was no "early success" for the iPod. It was a failure until the third generation, when it finally got PC support.
  - 72deluxe 12y ago
    Even then, as I recall iTunes was widely bashed? Its UI was obviously Apple UI on Windows, ignoring all Windows UI guidelines.
    - moe 12y ago
      Even then, as I recall iTunes was widely bashed? Was? iTunes is still the same trainwreck that it was 10 years ago. Apple seems to work hard to keep it the same sluggish nightmare, no matter how fast the hardware becomes that it runs on.
      - 72deluxe 12y ago
        I was being optimistic :-) I don't use it on Windows anymore - and I only installed it on there out of interest! Same went for Safari on Windows.
    - stef25 12y ago
      It's a trainwreck on Mac too. I use my iPod only when I go on holidays, say 3 - 4 times per year. I dread the moment I have to use iTunes to fill my iPod with songs. It causes me nothing but stress, which is exactly the opposite of what Apple is about.
      - 72deluxe 12y ago
        I only use it on the Mac to turn off the "automatic sync" feature on the iPod, and to do a manual backup of my wife's iPad. I must say that the backup interface for the iPad within iTunes is pretty poor. Not the feature - the interface. Mighty confused. I use Floola to shove songs on my iPod. Might be worth a look? (Mine is a 6th-gen classic).
- PopsiclePete 12y ago
  That's not how I remember it. iTunes was released before OS X. It was a time when Apple was more or less a joke of a company, surviving because of the hard-core few who refused to abandon it. Somewhat of an oddity. The iPod did not work on Windows (which was, what, 99% market-share in those days?) and required this insane thing called Firewire. Firewire. Even the name was funny to me. I was a Linux fan-boy, patiently waiting for The Year Of The Linux Desktop, and was quite dismissive of that bulky little device, much like everyone else who was a techie. The Rio or whatever is what people were sporting. And yet it basically destroyed the entire Taiwanese MP3 player market in the US in what, 2 years? Nokia should have seen it coming 7 years later...
  - JohnTHaller 12y ago
    I didn't mean first gen. But later. The iPod + iTunes was the first setup that worked well on Windows that I ever used. And I was coming from a NOMAD Jukebox: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_NOMAD#NOMAD_Jukebox_Zen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_NOMAD#NOMAD_Jukebox_Ze...

bduerst 12y ago

You are wrong. iTunes was such a monumental hit that it carried iPods with it - there's even a business case on the matter: http://hbr.org/product/apple-inc-ipods-and-itunes/an/905M46-PDF-ENG http://hbr.org/product/apple-inc-ipods-and-itunes/an/905M46-...

free2rhyme214 12y ago
The best way to win an argument is to avoid one. I've learned that this works with women as well.

JohnTHaller 12y ago

It absolutely did. You may have forgotten, but the early success of iTunes/iPod was in being able to organize your music and get it on your device. iTunes/iPod was the first to really get this right on any kind of scale. And, compared to the competition of the time, they really nailed it. So, a phone that had that integrated was a really big deal, even if it couldn't run any apps (as the first iPhone did and couldn't).

nardi 12y ago
GGP is talking about the iPod, not the iPhone. GP is right that iTunes had no foothold when the iPod was released, and Apple had no "empire."
- personZ 12y ago
  How did this suddenly get redefined to "when released"? If that is the case, Taco's widely criticized assessment was dead on - the iPod was initially a failure. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Total_ipod_sales.svg http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Total_ipod_sales.svg We know that it took off, but that was wholly on the back of iTunes - 0.99 tracks and much easier use than competitors sold the iPod, not some fundamental excellence of the device. People forget now but while we revile iTunes generally now, at the time it was the killer feature of the iPod, and the initial iPhone success.
tomcorrigan 12y ago
The first generation iPod was Mac only. The 2nd generation iPod was Mac + Windows but iTunes was still Mac only. Windows syncing was done with third party software (Musicmatch Jukebox) iTunes did not have a foothold in the marketplace until after the success of the iPod was evident.
- deeviant 12y ago
  The ipod was a complete failure when it was Mac only, and it didn't start picking up steam until iTunes was on windows. When it did start picking up steam, it was ipod and itunes together that sky-rocketed in unison, which seems to lend credence to the idea that it was the itunes ecosystem in conjunction with the ipod hardware that created success for apple in that space. As far as you "success of the ipod was evident" comment, that seems like solid case of hindsight on your part.
beedogs 12y ago
There was no "early success" for the iPod. It was a failure until the third generation, when it finally got PC support.
- 72deluxe 12y ago
  Even then, as I recall iTunes was widely bashed? Its UI was obviously Apple UI on Windows, ignoring all Windows UI guidelines.
  - moe 12y ago
    Even then, as I recall iTunes was widely bashed? Was? iTunes is still the same trainwreck that it was 10 years ago. Apple seems to work hard to keep it the same sluggish nightmare, no matter how fast the hardware becomes that it runs on.
    - 72deluxe 12y ago
      I was being optimistic :-) I don't use it on Windows anymore - and I only installed it on there out of interest! Same went for Safari on Windows.
  - stef25 12y ago
    It's a trainwreck on Mac too. I use my iPod only when I go on holidays, say 3 - 4 times per year. I dread the moment I have to use iTunes to fill my iPod with songs. It causes me nothing but stress, which is exactly the opposite of what Apple is about.
    - 72deluxe 12y ago
      I only use it on the Mac to turn off the "automatic sync" feature on the iPod, and to do a manual backup of my wife's iPad. I must say that the backup interface for the iPad within iTunes is pretty poor. Not the feature - the interface. Mighty confused. I use Floola to shove songs on my iPod. Might be worth a look? (Mine is a 6th-gen classic).
PopsiclePete 12y ago
That's not how I remember it. iTunes was released before OS X. It was a time when Apple was more or less a joke of a company, surviving because of the hard-core few who refused to abandon it. Somewhat of an oddity. The iPod did not work on Windows (which was, what, 99% market-share in those days?) and required this insane thing called Firewire. Firewire. Even the name was funny to me. I was a Linux fan-boy, patiently waiting for The Year Of The Linux Desktop, and was quite dismissive of that bulky little device, much like everyone else who was a techie. The Rio or whatever is what people were sporting. And yet it basically destroyed the entire Taiwanese MP3 player market in the US in what, 2 years? Nokia should have seen it coming 7 years later...
- JohnTHaller 12y ago
  I didn't mean first gen. But later. The iPod + iTunes was the first setup that worked well on Windows that I ever used. And I was coming from a NOMAD Jukebox: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_NOMAD#NOMAD_Jukebox_Zen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_NOMAD#NOMAD_Jukebox_Ze...