6 ms·

Hey guys, do you know if swift will be ever open-sourced? After the WWDC they said that was early to think about it while in beta. So, what's the status now?

by DAddYE 12y ago

xasos 12y ago
Open-sourcing it would be really cool to see. Chris Lattner last said he wasn't sure if they were going to open source it (http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/llvmdev/2014-June/073698.html http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/llvmdev/2014-June/073698....)
- DAddYE 12y ago
  Yep, we damn need a bit of more competition within bigs, right now seems just between Google and Mozilla (for the type of language).
  - riffraff 12y ago
    I think at this point we also have facebook embracing D ?
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    What competition?!? Until either of them support their languages on their respective OSs there isn't any competition.
    - 72deluxe 12y ago
      I think without the supporting runtime libraries also being open-source, there isn't any point in open-sourcing the language is there? I mean, look at GNUStep. Not widespread adoption.
      - pjmlp 12y ago
        Agreed. I gave up following GNUStep back in 2003, the last time I used WindowMaker as my window manager.
        72deluxe 12y ago
        Fond memories. I used to use WindowMaker on my old RH 6.2 system (or was it 7?), maybe even Fedora 1. But I never understood the dock - I was expecting a Windows-style task bar and the dock really isn't that. The fact that it sat beneath other windows meant you had to constantly shift windows to get to it, which I found frustrating. Likely a configuration option? It probably runs excellently on modern hardware, albeit with no GPU acceleration or anything to reduce main CPU cycles.
      - threeseed 12y ago
        Actually there is. One of the big selling points of Go is its ability to produce self contained binaries. Swift would share this but also be a language that is more full featured. GNUStep failure is more to do with Objective-C being such an odd language for most people.
        pjmlp 12y ago
        All compilers that produce native code are capable of producing static executables and libraries. This is only a selling point to developers that mix language with implementation, or never used a native code compiler.
  - CmonDev 12y ago
    C# is in front of all three in mobile space (it compiles to native of course). C# is the only language that is both modern and spans all major mobile platforms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xamarin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xamarin
    - josteink 12y ago
      Sure. But Xamarin is hardly open-source, and what OP was looking for was a open-sourced tool-chain & stack for mobile development.
      - jacobbudin 12y ago
        You can't even build Xamarin's sample project without demoing a commercial license, because the sample project is falls outside the app size restriction.
    - zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
      Considering the minuscule market share that Windows Mobile currently has, C# is close to nonexistent on mobile as of today.
      - CmonDev 12y ago
        Unity3d alone completely invalidates this claim.
        mnem 12y ago
        Are there many apps written in Unity? Or is it only games?
        _random_ 12y ago
        Mostly games which are a kind of apps. And games are the most popular apps, e.g.: http://www.statista.com/statistics/270291/popular-categories-in-the-app-store http://www.statista.com/statistics/270291/popular-categories....
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
CmonDev 12y ago
Their live feed yesterday was only available on Safari. Isn't it obvious that they want their herd only inside of a barn?
- romanovcode 12y ago
  I don't get why this is down-voted. I think it is excellent point. My thoughts exactly when tried to view the live stream.
  - sbuk 12y ago
    Its being downvoted because of the derogatory naming of Apple users.
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- kalleboo 12y ago
  It was streamed in the open HTTP Live Streaming protocol. It just so happens that the only web browser that implements it in Safari. Worked fine in VLC. Is there any other way to do live streams embedded on a web page without a proprietary Flash plugin?
  - frewsxcv 12y ago
    Hardly open. It'd be like if Google rewrote the Gmail frontend to native dart and then just blamed the other browsers for not having a native Dart VM. Dart is even standardized (by ECMA), unlike HLS which isn't standardized. Relevant: http://annevankesteren.nl/2010/09/draft-vs-standard http://annevankesteren.nl/2010/09/draft-vs-standard
- runjake 12y ago
  > they want their herd only inside of a barn? Awesome. Who should I switch to that doesn't want that?
1ris 12y ago
Apple opensoucred their Objective-C compiler only because the GPL on the GCC forced them. They invested a lot in the BSD licenced LLVM. I don't think they did this just for fun, but to avoid they have to do that.
- allegory 12y ago
  You do realise that the clang part of llvm includes the Objective C compiler and it's under the BSD license as well?
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    What good is the language without its libraries?
- ksherlock 12y ago
  Objective gcc came from NeXT. Apple has a problem with GPLv3, not the GPL in general.
- hobarrera 12y ago
  Apple has contributed back to a lot of BSD-licensed proyects, as well as released some of their own, so don't be so sure.
superuser2 12y ago
What is the practical difference if it's open-source or not? It'll still be OSX-native code, and every OSX user has access to it for free anyway. Or would that enable a Linux port?
- mikeash 12y ago
  It would enable porting to other platforms, and it's also just useful to be able to look at how things implemented. I've benefitted a lot from being able to look at the Objective-C runtime source code, for example, because I can see how things work or where things go wrong.
- _random_ 12y ago
  If Apple decides/realizes Swift was a bad idea, you will be out of luck with your codebase. Unlike open source where users can continue the work of the corporation.
- curtis17 12y ago
  > Or would that enable a Linux port? I would be interested in a Swift port for Linux server-side/command line dev. Not so much client UI dev. Swift on Linux servers could help Apple sell more Macbooks to developers.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    OCaml, F#, Haskell, Standard ML all with a longer history and (except SML) being used at the industry. Why bother with Swift in such use case...
    - curtis17 12y ago
      Swift seems a pragmatic take on functional programming. Apple backing means the compiler, libs and runtime will get a lot of work.
      - pjmlp 12y ago
        And Microsoft puts money on F#, Haskell and OCaml, all of which already have better Linux support. Swift is great for pushing functional programming down the throat to mainstream developers that wish to target iOS, but it is no more pragmatic than OCaml or F#. For the OP use case, targeting Linux server software is already better served by the languages I mentioned.

Hey guys, do you know if swift will be ever open-sourced? After the WWDC they said that was early to think about it while in beta. So, what's the status now?

by DAddYE 12y ago

Hey guys, do you know if swift will be ever open-sourced? After the WWDC they said that was early to think about it while in beta. So, what's the status now?

xasos 12y ago

Open-sourcing it would be really cool to see. Chris Lattner last said he wasn't sure if they were going to open source it (http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/llvmdev/2014-June/073698.html http://lists.cs.uiuc.edu/pipermail/llvmdev/2014-June/073698....)

DAddYE 12y ago
Yep, we damn need a bit of more competition within bigs, right now seems just between Google and Mozilla (for the type of language).
- riffraff 12y ago
  I think at this point we also have facebook embracing D ?
- pjmlp 12y ago
  What competition?!? Until either of them support their languages on their respective OSs there isn't any competition.
  - 72deluxe 12y ago
    I think without the supporting runtime libraries also being open-source, there isn't any point in open-sourcing the language is there? I mean, look at GNUStep. Not widespread adoption.
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      Agreed. I gave up following GNUStep back in 2003, the last time I used WindowMaker as my window manager.
      - 72deluxe 12y ago
        Fond memories. I used to use WindowMaker on my old RH 6.2 system (or was it 7?), maybe even Fedora 1. But I never understood the dock - I was expecting a Windows-style task bar and the dock really isn't that. The fact that it sat beneath other windows meant you had to constantly shift windows to get to it, which I found frustrating. Likely a configuration option? It probably runs excellently on modern hardware, albeit with no GPU acceleration or anything to reduce main CPU cycles.
    - threeseed 12y ago
      Actually there is. One of the big selling points of Go is its ability to produce self contained binaries. Swift would share this but also be a language that is more full featured. GNUStep failure is more to do with Objective-C being such an odd language for most people.
      - pjmlp 12y ago
        All compilers that produce native code are capable of producing static executables and libraries. This is only a selling point to developers that mix language with implementation, or never used a native code compiler.
- CmonDev 12y ago
  C# is in front of all three in mobile space (it compiles to native of course). C# is the only language that is both modern and spans all major mobile platforms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xamarin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xamarin
  - josteink 12y ago
    Sure. But Xamarin is hardly open-source, and what OP was looking for was a open-sourced tool-chain & stack for mobile development.
    - jacobbudin 12y ago
      You can't even build Xamarin's sample project without demoing a commercial license, because the sample project is falls outside the app size restriction.
  - zak_mc_kracken 12y ago
    Considering the minuscule market share that Windows Mobile currently has, C# is close to nonexistent on mobile as of today.
    - CmonDev 12y ago
      Unity3d alone completely invalidates this claim.
      - mnem 12y ago
        Are there many apps written in Unity? Or is it only games?
        _random_ 12y ago
        Mostly games which are a kind of apps. And games are the most popular apps, e.g.: http://www.statista.com/statistics/270291/popular-categories-in-the-app-store http://www.statista.com/statistics/270291/popular-categories....
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

CmonDev 12y ago

Their live feed yesterday was only available on Safari. Isn't it obvious that they want their herd only inside of a barn?

romanovcode 12y ago
I don't get why this is down-voted. I think it is excellent point. My thoughts exactly when tried to view the live stream.
- sbuk 12y ago
  Its being downvoted because of the derogatory naming of Apple users.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
kalleboo 12y ago
It was streamed in the open HTTP Live Streaming protocol. It just so happens that the only web browser that implements it in Safari. Worked fine in VLC. Is there any other way to do live streams embedded on a web page without a proprietary Flash plugin?
- frewsxcv 12y ago
  Hardly open. It'd be like if Google rewrote the Gmail frontend to native dart and then just blamed the other browsers for not having a native Dart VM. Dart is even standardized (by ECMA), unlike HLS which isn't standardized. Relevant: http://annevankesteren.nl/2010/09/draft-vs-standard http://annevankesteren.nl/2010/09/draft-vs-standard
runjake 12y ago
> they want their herd only inside of a barn? Awesome. Who should I switch to that doesn't want that?

1ris 12y ago

Apple opensoucred their Objective-C compiler only because the GPL on the GCC forced them. They invested a lot in the BSD licenced LLVM. I don't think they did this just for fun, but to avoid they have to do that.

allegory 12y ago
You do realise that the clang part of llvm includes the Objective C compiler and it's under the BSD license as well?
- pjmlp 12y ago
  What good is the language without its libraries?
ksherlock 12y ago
Objective gcc came from NeXT. Apple has a problem with GPLv3, not the GPL in general.
hobarrera 12y ago
Apple has contributed back to a lot of BSD-licensed proyects, as well as released some of their own, so don't be so sure.

superuser2 12y ago

What is the practical difference if it's open-source or not? It'll still be OSX-native code, and every OSX user has access to it for free anyway. Or would that enable a Linux port?

mikeash 12y ago
It would enable porting to other platforms, and it's also just useful to be able to look at how things implemented. I've benefitted a lot from being able to look at the Objective-C runtime source code, for example, because I can see how things work or where things go wrong.
_random_ 12y ago
If Apple decides/realizes Swift was a bad idea, you will be out of luck with your codebase. Unlike open source where users can continue the work of the corporation.
curtis17 12y ago
> Or would that enable a Linux port? I would be interested in a Swift port for Linux server-side/command line dev. Not so much client UI dev. Swift on Linux servers could help Apple sell more Macbooks to developers.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  OCaml, F#, Haskell, Standard ML all with a longer history and (except SML) being used at the industry. Why bother with Swift in such use case...
  - curtis17 12y ago
    Swift seems a pragmatic take on functional programming. Apple backing means the compiler, libs and runtime will get a lot of work.
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      And Microsoft puts money on F#, Haskell and OCaml, all of which already have better Linux support. Swift is great for pushing functional programming down the throat to mainstream developers that wish to target iOS, but it is no more pragmatic than OCaml or F#. For the OP use case, targeting Linux server software is already better served by the languages I mentioned.