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The Minecraft modding community just had a ridiculous few weeks with the various dramas surrounding Bukkit (a popular, extensible server mod). I can't wait to

The Minecraft modding community just had a ridiculous few weeks with the various dramas surrounding Bukkit (a popular, extensible server mod). I can't wait to see what the reactions are to this news.

cjslep 12y ago
I was (am?) a moderator for Technic/Tekkit, and at the time the modding community seemed to me like it was a cesspit of adfly links and people eager to claim copyright over everything they touched. If the community is still similar then I agree, seeing the reactions to this news will be interesting to say the least.
- KnightHawk3 12y ago
  I still don't grasp why everyone is trying to make a profit and claim copyright of their modification on someone elses work. (That doesn't have a licence to allow modification)
  - Navarr 12y ago
    Because at the end of the day your code is your code, and you do have copyright on it, and in a number of cases are or should be legally allowed to profit off of it. Especially when you bought it under a license [1] that allows you to do so [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20110923135753/http://www.minecraft.net/terms https://web.archive.org/web/20110923135753/http://www.minecr...
Cogito 12y ago
I'm in many ways sad I stopped working regularly on Bukkit. My involvement started to wane a couple of months before the 4 founders got acquired by Mojang, mostly because I got a Real Job. I was there just as it was starting, and helped (what seemed like) a lot with the early dev work and community management. Mostly it was just fun hanging out with the team (primarily EvilSeph and Tahg, but of course Dinnerbone, Grum, and all the other core devs as well) solving problems, but that started to happen less and less. I have heard snippets of what has been going on, but haven't yet really read up on it. I do know that Warren (EvilSeph) was always at the core of the project, he kept the community more or less under control and helped co-ordinate everything. It was always clear that if he ever stopped pulling the various threads together the project as a whole would stop working. Sure, devs would be able to keep adding features and upgrading to latest versions, but the project was always more than just the plugin API and server implementation. It's incredibly annoying to manage the expectations of thousands of minecraft server admins (who seem to mostly be 12 years old, though there were definitely a lot of older admins) and no-one but Warren ever seemed up to the task. I should probably go do a bit of reading to find out exactly what has been going on.
- Pyrodogg 12y ago
  Better, if you still have contacts, I encourage you to reach out to some of those devs involved. Otherwise, read wisely. It seems that Bukkit had just been going on too long under it's quasi-relationship with Mojang. Semi-blessed but not supported (and still technically illegal). Energy drained to a point where the developers realized that as fun as Bukkit was they might like to work on other things after so many years. This point has been almost entirely lost on the reddit lynch mob. They've only been focusing on the secondary event, the DMCA take down and it's effects. This was also significant, but I don't think people appreciate that even if Bukkit were still up and, like you said, "devs [...] keep adding features [...] upgrading", the very heart of the project was already walking away. I really wish Bukkit would have been able to find a better footing to build atop of than relying on distributing Mojang's code sans license, putting them in a legal bind. If they would have had that technological footing early on, I think Mojang would have actually been more legitimately supporting of more of their efforts. Instead, they only turned their eye to the violations, and skirted the issue leaving it ambiguous. Eventually the ambiguity without change got to the core team and they decided to close up shop.
  - Cogito 12y ago
    I've started going through the 'goodbye' posts from various team members that mbaxter assembled[1]. I feel a profound sense of loss reading through and remembering the many interactions over the years. When I read lukegb's[2] account in particular I almost broke down. Luke is someone I still have the contact details of (in fact I could probably find most of the guys on irc or through various social network profiles) and I reached out directly to thank him. He was one of the few still involved today who was with us at the start. I was incredibly humbled, and grateful (there are tears in my eyes as I write this), when he listed me along side the 4 who were acquired by Mojang - "Thanks to @Dinnerbone, @Grum, @Tahg, @Cogito, @EvilSeph for kicking off such an amazing project that’s been a big part of my life" Minecraft is almost no part of my life today, but I can say for sure I wouldn't be where I am without these people and the Bukkit project. It's sad to see it in turmoil like this, but as you say the world is a bigger place, and no open source project is worth pouring your time into when legal ambiguities abound, the community is so volatile, and the rewards are so fleeting. [1] http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/an-independent-goodbye.310086/ http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/an-independent-goodbye.3100... [2] http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/a-sysadmin-falls.310051/ http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/a-sysadmin-falls.310051/

The Minecraft modding community just had a ridiculous few weeks with the various dramas surrounding Bukkit (a popular, extensible server mod). I can't wait to see what the reactions are to this news.

cjslep 12y ago

I was (am?) a moderator for Technic/Tekkit, and at the time the modding community seemed to me like it was a cesspit of adfly links and people eager to claim copyright over everything they touched. If the community is still similar then I agree, seeing the reactions to this news will be interesting to say the least.

KnightHawk3 12y ago
I still don't grasp why everyone is trying to make a profit and claim copyright of their modification on someone elses work. (That doesn't have a licence to allow modification)
- Navarr 12y ago
  Because at the end of the day your code is your code, and you do have copyright on it, and in a number of cases are or should be legally allowed to profit off of it. Especially when you bought it under a license [1] that allows you to do so [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20110923135753/http://www.minecraft.net/terms https://web.archive.org/web/20110923135753/http://www.minecr...

Cogito 12y ago

I'm in many ways sad I stopped working regularly on Bukkit. My involvement started to wane a couple of months before the 4 founders got acquired by Mojang, mostly because I got a Real Job. I was there just as it was starting, and helped (what seemed like) a lot with the early dev work and community management. Mostly it was just fun hanging out with the team (primarily EvilSeph and Tahg, but of course Dinnerbone, Grum, and all the other core devs as well) solving problems, but that started to happen less and less. I have heard snippets of what has been going on, but haven't yet really read up on it. I do know that Warren (EvilSeph) was always at the core of the project, he kept the community more or less under control and helped co-ordinate everything. It was always clear that if he ever stopped pulling the various threads together the project as a whole would stop working. Sure, devs would be able to keep adding features and upgrading to latest versions, but the project was always more than just the plugin API and server implementation. It's incredibly annoying to manage the expectations of thousands of minecraft server admins (who seem to mostly be 12 years old, though there were definitely a lot of older admins) and no-one but Warren ever seemed up to the task. I should probably go do a bit of reading to find out exactly what has been going on.

Pyrodogg 12y ago
Better, if you still have contacts, I encourage you to reach out to some of those devs involved. Otherwise, read wisely. It seems that Bukkit had just been going on too long under it's quasi-relationship with Mojang. Semi-blessed but not supported (and still technically illegal). Energy drained to a point where the developers realized that as fun as Bukkit was they might like to work on other things after so many years. This point has been almost entirely lost on the reddit lynch mob. They've only been focusing on the secondary event, the DMCA take down and it's effects. This was also significant, but I don't think people appreciate that even if Bukkit were still up and, like you said, "devs [...] keep adding features [...] upgrading", the very heart of the project was already walking away. I really wish Bukkit would have been able to find a better footing to build atop of than relying on distributing Mojang's code sans license, putting them in a legal bind. If they would have had that technological footing early on, I think Mojang would have actually been more legitimately supporting of more of their efforts. Instead, they only turned their eye to the violations, and skirted the issue leaving it ambiguous. Eventually the ambiguity without change got to the core team and they decided to close up shop.
- Cogito 12y ago
  I've started going through the 'goodbye' posts from various team members that mbaxter assembled[1]. I feel a profound sense of loss reading through and remembering the many interactions over the years. When I read lukegb's[2] account in particular I almost broke down. Luke is someone I still have the contact details of (in fact I could probably find most of the guys on irc or through various social network profiles) and I reached out directly to thank him. He was one of the few still involved today who was with us at the start. I was incredibly humbled, and grateful (there are tears in my eyes as I write this), when he listed me along side the 4 who were acquired by Mojang - "Thanks to @Dinnerbone, @Grum, @Tahg, @Cogito, @EvilSeph for kicking off such an amazing project that’s been a big part of my life" Minecraft is almost no part of my life today, but I can say for sure I wouldn't be where I am without these people and the Bukkit project. It's sad to see it in turmoil like this, but as you say the world is a bigger place, and no open source project is worth pouring your time into when legal ambiguities abound, the community is so volatile, and the rewards are so fleeting. [1] http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/an-independent-goodbye.310086/ http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/an-independent-goodbye.3100... [2] http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/a-sysadmin-falls.310051/ http://forums.bukkit.org/threads/a-sysadmin-falls.310051/