5 ms·

They probably use https://developer.apple.com/streaming/ https://developer.apple.com/streaming/ , an HTTP streaming mechanism that's implemented by Safari that

by bla2 12y ago

They probably use https://developer.apple.com/streaming/ https://developer.apple.com/streaming/ , an HTTP streaming mechanism that's implemented by Safari that didn't get adopted by any other browser.

MCRed 12y ago
Ever since Apple originated consumer computer video with Quicktime back in the early 1990s, they've done a great deal to make it better, first for CD Roms and in a proprietary fashion. But when the net came around they opened up their proprietary format to become a standard-- the Mpeg4 file format is the old MOV format. They've also proposed a lot of improvements along these lines for other people to adopt. Like Bonjour, I really don't understand why other companies don't adopt these open standards. They don't benefit Apple particularly. It's not like Apple has some competitive advantage in HTTP Live Streaming. Meanwhile these competitors rush to copy everything else Apple does. Frankly, I think its appalling that youtube, for instance, is still running on flash. How many years ago did they first trial MP4 streaming? Why I can't I access all the videos over MP4? Why would you want your browser to be bad at streaming video?
- lostgame 12y ago
  What, what? YouTube has been doing an HTML5 based web player for quite some time now[1], and I believe it supports FLV video as well, though I can't find a reference for that. [1] https://www.youtube.com/html5?gl=CA https://www.youtube.com/html5?gl=CA
  - MCRed 12y ago
    I have uninstalled Flash from my system. A great many videos on YouTube give me the "you need the latest flash player to watch this video" error. Yes, several years ago, I was getting MP4 video, and today, a portion (say %30-%40) just launch with MP4. But most of the time I get the "you need flash".
    - archagon 12y ago
      It's really weird. Using the built-in HTML5 player, half the videos don't load. But those videos do exist — Google just doesn't want you to be able to access them easily. I can watch them on my iOS devices, I can download them using dirpy.com, and I can watch them in my browser using the YouTube5 plugin.
  - jjoonathan 12y ago
    I don't think you can use the HTML5 player for videos with ads. It's an elephant of a caveat.
    - aroman 12y ago
      This was true at one point, but no longer. The HTML5 video player displays ads just fine these days.
- Someone1234 12y ago
  None of those things are open standards. Both Mpeg4 and "Bonjour" require a licence to utilise. Maybe that answers your question, people don't want to pay Apple oodles of money? > Frankly, I think its appalling that youtube, for instance, is still running on flash. Everyone can turn on HTML5 for YouTube if they wish. They offer both. They give you the choice, the default is Flash (but Flash still has the widest support on older platforms). > Why I can't I access all the videos over MP4? Because people would have to pay licensing fees several times for the same stream (e.g. sender and receiver both have to pay $$$, sometimes the sender, browser vendor AND OS vendor have to pay $$$). > Meanwhile these competitors rush to copy everything else Apple does. And Apple copies everything their competitors do also. Just look at iOS 8, that was just copying some of the best features from their competition (not that I blame them, they were right to do so). The new keyboard (Android), third party keyboards (Android), "Handoff" (everyone else), Spotlight web-search (everyone else), etc. Apple hasn't done anything original since Jobs died.
  - MCRed 12y ago
    Bonjour was released under an open source license, part of it the Apache license, and does not require a royalty to be paid to Apple. I turned on HTML5 video for youtube and I still have this problem, because they don't encode all videos in MP4.
    - deelowe 12y ago
      You seem to have missed this bit > Because people would have to pay licensing fees several times for the same stream Many groups have spoken out about the licensing issues with pictures, video, and audio. That's what has created this mess.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  > Ever since Apple originated consumer computer video with Quicktime back in the early 1990s I think that honor befalls the ITU with their H.261. It's only a few years difference and it definitely was never as wide spread as Quicktime but that's the first format that I remember that actually worked. It never succeeded on the web though there were a couple of companies that tried to do this using so called browser plug-ins. Live streaming is mostly the domain of RTMP these days, HTTP doesn't lend itself well to live (but works just fine for streaming stored content). As for why browsers don't all do MP4, you could ask why browsers do not natively support RTMP, that would solve the whole problem in one go.
- Kurtz79 12y ago
  Serious question: what is the state of the art for in-browser live streaming to date ? Twitch, Google Hangouts, any "live" sport event what protocol/technology do they use ? A mix of HLS and flash ?
  - duskwuff 12y ago
    Twitch uses HLS with a Flash front end. No idea about the others. HLS is nice because it doesn't require any new servers or protocols -- it uses vanilla HTTP, and can be served up by basically any web server. As a result, it's much easier to make it work with a CDN.
    - Kurtz79 12y ago
      Thanks. I guess the reason of having such poor support outside Apple browsers, despite the benefits, has to do with licensing issues and the complications of embedding ads, as someone pointed out.
  - jgh 12y ago
    Yes.
  - niutech 12y ago
    There are many protocols, including HTTP Live Streaming, RTSP, RTP, MMS, used by multiple browser plugins, such as QuickTime, Flash, Windows Media Player. A comprehensive list of such systems is on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_streaming_media_systems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_streaming_media_s...
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
cheald 12y ago
You can watch in non-Safari browsers if you change the user agent.

by bla2 12y ago

MCRed 12y ago

Ever since Apple originated consumer computer video with Quicktime back in the early 1990s, they've done a great deal to make it better, first for CD Roms and in a proprietary fashion. But when the net came around they opened up their proprietary format to become a standard-- the Mpeg4 file format is the old MOV format. They've also proposed a lot of improvements along these lines for other people to adopt. Like Bonjour, I really don't understand why other companies don't adopt these open standards. They don't benefit Apple particularly. It's not like Apple has some competitive advantage in HTTP Live Streaming. Meanwhile these competitors rush to copy everything else Apple does. Frankly, I think its appalling that youtube, for instance, is still running on flash. How many years ago did they first trial MP4 streaming? Why I can't I access all the videos over MP4? Why would you want your browser to be bad at streaming video?

lostgame 12y ago
What, what? YouTube has been doing an HTML5 based web player for quite some time now[1], and I believe it supports FLV video as well, though I can't find a reference for that. [1] https://www.youtube.com/html5?gl=CA https://www.youtube.com/html5?gl=CA
- MCRed 12y ago
  I have uninstalled Flash from my system. A great many videos on YouTube give me the "you need the latest flash player to watch this video" error. Yes, several years ago, I was getting MP4 video, and today, a portion (say %30-%40) just launch with MP4. But most of the time I get the "you need flash".
  - archagon 12y ago
    It's really weird. Using the built-in HTML5 player, half the videos don't load. But those videos do exist — Google just doesn't want you to be able to access them easily. I can watch them on my iOS devices, I can download them using dirpy.com, and I can watch them in my browser using the YouTube5 plugin.
- jjoonathan 12y ago
  I don't think you can use the HTML5 player for videos with ads. It's an elephant of a caveat.
  - aroman 12y ago
    This was true at one point, but no longer. The HTML5 video player displays ads just fine these days.
Someone1234 12y ago
None of those things are open standards. Both Mpeg4 and "Bonjour" require a licence to utilise. Maybe that answers your question, people don't want to pay Apple oodles of money? > Frankly, I think its appalling that youtube, for instance, is still running on flash. Everyone can turn on HTML5 for YouTube if they wish. They offer both. They give you the choice, the default is Flash (but Flash still has the widest support on older platforms). > Why I can't I access all the videos over MP4? Because people would have to pay licensing fees several times for the same stream (e.g. sender and receiver both have to pay $$$, sometimes the sender, browser vendor AND OS vendor have to pay $$$). > Meanwhile these competitors rush to copy everything else Apple does. And Apple copies everything their competitors do also. Just look at iOS 8, that was just copying some of the best features from their competition (not that I blame them, they were right to do so). The new keyboard (Android), third party keyboards (Android), "Handoff" (everyone else), Spotlight web-search (everyone else), etc. Apple hasn't done anything original since Jobs died.
- MCRed 12y ago
  Bonjour was released under an open source license, part of it the Apache license, and does not require a royalty to be paid to Apple. I turned on HTML5 video for youtube and I still have this problem, because they don't encode all videos in MP4.
  - deelowe 12y ago
    You seem to have missed this bit > Because people would have to pay licensing fees several times for the same stream Many groups have spoken out about the licensing issues with pictures, video, and audio. That's what has created this mess.
jacquesm 12y ago
> Ever since Apple originated consumer computer video with Quicktime back in the early 1990s I think that honor befalls the ITU with their H.261. It's only a few years difference and it definitely was never as wide spread as Quicktime but that's the first format that I remember that actually worked. It never succeeded on the web though there were a couple of companies that tried to do this using so called browser plug-ins. Live streaming is mostly the domain of RTMP these days, HTTP doesn't lend itself well to live (but works just fine for streaming stored content). As for why browsers don't all do MP4, you could ask why browsers do not natively support RTMP, that would solve the whole problem in one go.
Kurtz79 12y ago
Serious question: what is the state of the art for in-browser live streaming to date ? Twitch, Google Hangouts, any "live" sport event what protocol/technology do they use ? A mix of HLS and flash ?
- duskwuff 12y ago
  Twitch uses HLS with a Flash front end. No idea about the others. HLS is nice because it doesn't require any new servers or protocols -- it uses vanilla HTTP, and can be served up by basically any web server. As a result, it's much easier to make it work with a CDN.
  - Kurtz79 12y ago
    Thanks. I guess the reason of having such poor support outside Apple browsers, despite the benefits, has to do with licensing issues and the complications of embedding ads, as someone pointed out.
- jgh 12y ago
  Yes.
- niutech 12y ago
  There are many protocols, including HTTP Live Streaming, RTSP, RTP, MMS, used by multiple browser plugins, such as QuickTime, Flash, Windows Media Player. A comprehensive list of such systems is on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_streaming_media_systems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_streaming_media_s...

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

cheald 12y ago

You can watch in non-Safari browsers if you change the user agent.