4 ms·

This probably should be a blog post with deeper research, but I swear it must be a human rite of passage to have the established groups treat some minority or "

This probably should be a blog post with deeper research, but I swear it must be a human rite of passage to have the established groups treat some minority or "new" group poorly. For example, it wasn't but 100 years ago in the USA that groups like Irish, Germans, Italians, Chinese, etc. were looked down on as poor immigrants who were taking "real" American jobs. They eventually were accepted only to turn around and put down people who were Black, Latino, Women, etc. Acceptance of African Americans and Women has improved a lot, and in some places Mexicans are more easily accepted than other places. However, there are still plenty of people that treat those groups poorly. Eventually, all the current minorities, including women, will be accepted only to turn around and treat some other group like crap. Why? I assume it's because it's human nature and it's the cycle that seems to happen for things that are different. At some point we all get bullied and we all take turns bullying someone else. It'd be nice to just skip over the ugliness, but that's not really how it works with people. Also, let us not forget that getting treated poorly is not always a minority issue. Some people are just plain jerks and they treat everybody like crap. That's not an excuse, but no amount of positive change will get rid of jerks. They are in every industry and almost every company.

icebraining 12y ago
Eventually, all the current minorities, including women Women are not a minority; not in the US nor in the vast majority of countries.
- mark-r 12y ago
  They are not a minority of the population, but definitely a minority in the tech workplace.
- programminggeek 12y ago
  Obviously by number not a minority, but in the way they sometimes get treated or by perception or whatever, they seem to be considered a "protected class" or whatever the legal term is that you shouldn't discriminate against. I think the point remains however that any group that faces a generation of discrimination/hazing/whatever you want to call it seems to find a way to revisit that same act on a later generation once they are in power.
  - gaylemcd 12y ago
    FYI (not really relevant for your post, but useful for people to know) - Gender is the protected class, not women. This means that it's illegal to use gender as a factor in employment, barring very strict standards of when something is a legitimate job qualification. (For example, if you hired someone to stand in a women's locker room and hand out towels, you'd probably be able to legitimately discriminate on gender. You could not however use gender to only hire women for a teaching position at a women's college.) Now, in practice, the court might be more lenient on gender discrimination against one gender or another (and it might change based on job). Just like the courts are likely harsher in penalties towards black people.
tomp 12y ago
> Why? I assume it's because it's human nature and it's the cycle that seems to happen for things that are different When it comes to the in-groups, it's not really bullying. IMO, it's more like a fitness-test, i.e. subjecting the new person who wants to be a member of an established group to some difficulty, so that the person is tempted to give up, and only those that really want to become members are accepted. For example, I'm less than thrilled by the current campaign of "more women/kids/blacks/lations/people" in tech, because I feel that all these people just want to be programmers because of the money. I didn't want to become a programmer (I actually wanted not to become one), I just spent so much time in front of a computer that I learned a lot about it. I will never be able to regard someone as an "equal" (true geek) that just got in for the money. If you compare the current craze with 5/10 years ago (before the big salaries started), there is a huge difference in attitude towards the geeks, which makes the general public's motivations painfully obvious. Another example: I'm not sure if that's a true depiction of Jews, but when Charlotte (from Sex and the City) decides she wants to convert to Judaism (to marry a Jew), she is turned away 3 times by the rabbi, before they let her start with the process.

icebraining 12y ago

Eventually, all the current minorities, including women Women are not a minority; not in the US nor in the vast majority of countries.

mark-r 12y ago
They are not a minority of the population, but definitely a minority in the tech workplace.
programminggeek 12y ago
Obviously by number not a minority, but in the way they sometimes get treated or by perception or whatever, they seem to be considered a "protected class" or whatever the legal term is that you shouldn't discriminate against. I think the point remains however that any group that faces a generation of discrimination/hazing/whatever you want to call it seems to find a way to revisit that same act on a later generation once they are in power.
- gaylemcd 12y ago
  FYI (not really relevant for your post, but useful for people to know) - Gender is the protected class, not women. This means that it's illegal to use gender as a factor in employment, barring very strict standards of when something is a legitimate job qualification. (For example, if you hired someone to stand in a women's locker room and hand out towels, you'd probably be able to legitimately discriminate on gender. You could not however use gender to only hire women for a teaching position at a women's college.) Now, in practice, the court might be more lenient on gender discrimination against one gender or another (and it might change based on job). Just like the courts are likely harsher in penalties towards black people.

tomp 12y ago

> Why? I assume it's because it's human nature and it's the cycle that seems to happen for things that are different When it comes to the in-groups, it's not really bullying. IMO, it's more like a fitness-test, i.e. subjecting the new person who wants to be a member of an established group to some difficulty, so that the person is tempted to give up, and only those that really want to become members are accepted. For example, I'm less than thrilled by the current campaign of "more women/kids/blacks/lations/people" in tech, because I feel that all these people just want to be programmers because of the money. I didn't want to become a programmer (I actually wanted not to become one), I just spent so much time in front of a computer that I learned a lot about it. I will never be able to regard someone as an "equal" (true geek) that just got in for the money. If you compare the current craze with 5/10 years ago (before the big salaries started), there is a huge difference in attitude towards the geeks, which makes the general public's motivations painfully obvious. Another example: I'm not sure if that's a true depiction of Jews, but when Charlotte (from Sex and the City) decides she wants to convert to Judaism (to marry a Jew), she is turned away 3 times by the rabbi, before they let her start with the process.