8 ms·

Issue #3 – Better Late Than Never

344 points by bpierre 12y ago

pestaa 12y ago
I'm really looking forward to seeing neovim make it possible to put it in a nice GUI. I know it's an application that meant to be used with the keyboard, but gVim always refuses to behave in maximized windows, doesn't handle random window widths, etc. Is there a good workaround while this dream is coming true?
scrollaway 12y ago
Reading about neovim is very cool. It's nice to see such an actively beloved open source project which is all about modernizing an old tool (and that means 90% "backend" stuff), and it's a big breath of fresh air to see how well organized they are.
- xienze 12y ago
  Agreed. When the initial fundraising campaign was happening I figured it was just going to fizzle out eventually when the guy driving it got bored. Boy was I wrong... this is a seriously organized effort.
  - aktau 12y ago
    Very glad you guys feel that way! To anyone at all interested and having some free time, feel free to see if you can contribute something at https://github.com/neovim/neovim https://github.com/neovim/neovim. Anyone is welcome to help out.
  - davis 12y ago
    aktau (commented below), Justin Keyes, and obviously Thiago are certainly driving a ton of the development. The amount of time they put into the Issue tracker and coding blows me away. It's all really impressive and they definitely have set the tone for the project. aktau: https://github.com/aktau https://github.com/aktau Justin: https://github.com/justinmk https://github.com/justinmk Thiago: https://github.com/tarruda https://github.com/tarruda
lbradstreet 12y ago
I am seriously glad that this is a thing. I donated after the original bountysource, and seeing the momentum I may just donate again.
- lbradstreet 12y ago
  Addendum: if it weren't for Tim Pope and his Vimscript mastery, I would already be using emacs in Evil mode.
  - SeoxyS 12y ago
    +1. Tim Pope is the best. Neovim looks like it's shaping up to be the best, too.
pcmonk 12y ago
I love how they're also contributing upstream to libuv. This is how you do an open source, community-focused project.
- tarruda 12y ago
  Also, There have been some contributions to msgpack-c: - https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/84 https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/84 - https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/109 https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/109 - https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/113 https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/113 - https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/118 https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/118
phireph0x 12y ago
As a vim user for many years, I'm also glad to see this project take off, and will give it a spin soon. Just curious, how is this project being received by Bram Moolenaar, the creator (and BDFL I believe) of vim? ... Just found an answer https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/vim_dev/x0BF9Y0Uby8 https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/vim_dev/x0BF9Y0Uby...
- farresito 12y ago
  Unfortunately, it's been a few months since he last wrote that answer. Would be great to hear what he thinks about it now. I don't think anyone expected such success (based on what they have accomplished so far in terms of development).
  - oblio 12y ago
    With a bit of luck we'll have a gcc/egcs situation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Compiler_Collection#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Compiler_Collection#History). Basically GCC was falling behind, a fork called EGCS was a lot better after a while and at a certain point GNU just dropped the old GCC and adopted EGCS as the official GCC. Of course, Neovim first has to make a release for this to happen. And Bram has to let go of the legacy platforms (sorry Amiga!). He can support them via older Vim versions, I don't think it would be a problem for anybody...
famblycat 12y ago
This thread is a good example of why the policy requiring that a post title must match the article title doesn't always work. The title is okay within the context of the site it's on, but it's completely nonsensical on its own without that context.
- davis 12y ago
  It used to have Neovim in the title... I'm not quite sure why a mod would remove that.
yepguy 12y ago
Reading through the Github proposal for Go plugin integration, I'm pretty confused about Neovim's plugin architecture. I had thought that Neovim's plugins would be language agnostic, with external processes communicating with Neovim using msgpack-rpc (presumably paired with some method of telling Neovim to start those processes). However, it looks like the proposal for Go integration is very much Go-specific, following the example set by Python-specific integration code. This makes me significantly less excited about Neovim's plugin architecture, since it now seems to me like every language may need support to be manually added to Neovim anyway. What's going on here?
- banachtarski 12y ago
  Is that not how it works? https://github.com/neovim/neovim/wiki/Plugin-UI-architecture https://github.com/neovim/neovim/wiki/Plugin-UI-architecture
- fmoralesc 12y ago
  No, the architecture is still pretty much language agnostic. My `providers` branch[1] generalizes the python integration, for example. I discussed the possibility of plugins building on this to provide the equivalent functionality to the current python implementation. In regards to the Go integration, it's been decided it would be better to have a host like in the case of the python plugin, but the main rationale for that is not to create too many co-processes. [1]: https://github.com/fmoralesc/neovim/tree/providers https://github.com/fmoralesc/neovim/tree/providers
  - yepguy 12y ago
    Okay, it sounds like my fears are unfounded, but I still don't really understand it. What is a host in this context? I know that the plugin API is still in flux, but I really wish it was documented anyway. Actually, I'm not even sure how anyone was even able to start coding something like this without a design doc existing first.
    - fmoralesc 12y ago
hackuser 12y ago
Most importantly, thank you Bram Moolenaar! Vim is the probably my most productive tool and it's certainly my favorite. If you donated to Neovim, consider also donating to Bram's charity.[1] All of us who have benefited so much, and for free, from Bram's efforts owe him thanks, respect and much more. [1] http://iccf-holland.org/ http://iccf-holland.org/ (I'm a satisfied Vim user and see no need for any major revision. Perhaps others with different needs feel differently, and it has been discussed before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7287668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7287668 )
- unclebunkers 12y ago
  Just curious why no love for ol Bill Joy?
  - fritzo 12y ago
    And Tim Thompson
banachtarski 12y ago
Is there any way to link to neovim as a C library instead of using the messaging protocol? Also, where is the documentation of the protocol? I wasn't able to find it after a few minutes of browsing.
RexRollman 12y ago
Totally off topic but this reminds me that I need to see if I can figure out how to get Nvi to compile on OS X Mavericks. I know, I know, but it has a special place in my heart because it was the first version of Vi that I ever used.
- saidajigumi 12y ago
  The project seems intent on keeping the build and distribution processes up to date along with the evolving codebase. For example, you can install now via Homebrew: brew install --HEAD https://raw.github.com/neovim/neovim/master/neovim.rb From there, it's not going to be difficult to get a build from your own clone up and running.
  - aeosynth 12y ago
    nvi is a reimplementation of vi, and is unrelated to neovim, a refactoring of vim
    - RexRollman 12y ago
      Correct. By the great Keith Bostic!
- bch 12y ago
  Use NetBSDs pkgsrc: http://www.pkgsrc.org http://www.pkgsrc.org
elwell 12y ago
What's the equivalent of Newvim for Emacs? I had hopes for Deuce [0], but it seems stagnant. [0] - https://github.com/hraberg/deuce https://github.com/hraberg/deuce "Emacs under Clojure"
- mwfogleman 12y ago
  Not quite the same, but I am excited about Emacs adopting Git. I think that'll be a major boon to its development.
- Avshalom 12y ago
  The GuileEmacs project probably.
  - Crito 12y ago
    The GuileEmacs project never really getting off the ground with much momentum is probably the only reason I still use Vim. ELisp just kills any motivation I have to 'make emacs my own'.
- edeion 12y ago
  There was Climacs http://common-lisp.net/project/climacs/ http://common-lisp.net/project/climacs/ which aimed at re-implementing emacs in Common Lisp.
varkson 12y ago
If they can make Vim feel more modern and allow plugins to integrate better, I'd be very very happy to move to this software.
atdt 12y ago
Kudos for keeping up the commitment to publish regular updates. The newsletter gives the whole project a feeling of momentum and integrity.
TheSoftwareGuy 12y ago
I haven't been keeping up with neovim, but does it completely freak the fuck out whenever I forget I have caps lock on the way that vim does?
- TheSoftwareGuy 12y ago
  I seem to be getting downvoted, not really sure why.
cranium 12y ago
:x == :wq (I love conciseness.)

344 points by bpierre 12y ago

I'm really looking forward to seeing neovim make it possible to put it in a nice GUI. I know it's an application that meant to be used with the keyboard, but gVim always refuses to behave in maximized windows, doesn't handle random window widths, etc. Is there a good workaround while this dream is coming true?

scrollaway 12y ago

Reading about neovim is very cool. It's nice to see such an actively beloved open source project which is all about modernizing an old tool (and that means 90% "backend" stuff), and it's a big breath of fresh air to see how well organized they are.

xienze 12y ago
Agreed. When the initial fundraising campaign was happening I figured it was just going to fizzle out eventually when the guy driving it got bored. Boy was I wrong... this is a seriously organized effort.
- aktau 12y ago
  Very glad you guys feel that way! To anyone at all interested and having some free time, feel free to see if you can contribute something at https://github.com/neovim/neovim https://github.com/neovim/neovim. Anyone is welcome to help out.
- davis 12y ago
  aktau (commented below), Justin Keyes, and obviously Thiago are certainly driving a ton of the development. The amount of time they put into the Issue tracker and coding blows me away. It's all really impressive and they definitely have set the tone for the project. aktau: https://github.com/aktau https://github.com/aktau Justin: https://github.com/justinmk https://github.com/justinmk Thiago: https://github.com/tarruda https://github.com/tarruda

lbradstreet 12y ago

I am seriously glad that this is a thing. I donated after the original bountysource, and seeing the momentum I may just donate again.

lbradstreet 12y ago
Addendum: if it weren't for Tim Pope and his Vimscript mastery, I would already be using emacs in Evil mode.
- SeoxyS 12y ago
  +1. Tim Pope is the best. Neovim looks like it's shaping up to be the best, too.

pcmonk 12y ago

I love how they're also contributing upstream to libuv. This is how you do an open source, community-focused project.

tarruda 12y ago
Also, There have been some contributions to msgpack-c: - https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/84 https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/84 - https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/109 https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/109 - https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/113 https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/113 - https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/118 https://github.com/msgpack/msgpack-c/pull/118

phireph0x 12y ago

As a vim user for many years, I'm also glad to see this project take off, and will give it a spin soon. Just curious, how is this project being received by Bram Moolenaar, the creator (and BDFL I believe) of vim? ... Just found an answer https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/vim_dev/x0BF9Y0Uby8 https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/vim_dev/x0BF9Y0Uby...

farresito 12y ago
Unfortunately, it's been a few months since he last wrote that answer. Would be great to hear what he thinks about it now. I don't think anyone expected such success (based on what they have accomplished so far in terms of development).
- oblio 12y ago
  With a bit of luck we'll have a gcc/egcs situation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Compiler_Collection#History http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Compiler_Collection#History). Basically GCC was falling behind, a fork called EGCS was a lot better after a while and at a certain point GNU just dropped the old GCC and adopted EGCS as the official GCC. Of course, Neovim first has to make a release for this to happen. And Bram has to let go of the legacy platforms (sorry Amiga!). He can support them via older Vim versions, I don't think it would be a problem for anybody...

famblycat 12y ago

This thread is a good example of why the policy requiring that a post title must match the article title doesn't always work. The title is okay within the context of the site it's on, but it's completely nonsensical on its own without that context.

davis 12y ago
It used to have Neovim in the title... I'm not quite sure why a mod would remove that.

yepguy 12y ago

Reading through the Github proposal for Go plugin integration, I'm pretty confused about Neovim's plugin architecture. I had thought that Neovim's plugins would be language agnostic, with external processes communicating with Neovim using msgpack-rpc (presumably paired with some method of telling Neovim to start those processes). However, it looks like the proposal for Go integration is very much Go-specific, following the example set by Python-specific integration code. This makes me significantly less excited about Neovim's plugin architecture, since it now seems to me like every language may need support to be manually added to Neovim anyway. What's going on here?

banachtarski 12y ago
Is that not how it works? https://github.com/neovim/neovim/wiki/Plugin-UI-architecture https://github.com/neovim/neovim/wiki/Plugin-UI-architecture
fmoralesc 12y ago
No, the architecture is still pretty much language agnostic. My `providers` branch[1] generalizes the python integration, for example. I discussed the possibility of plugins building on this to provide the equivalent functionality to the current python implementation. In regards to the Go integration, it's been decided it would be better to have a host like in the case of the python plugin, but the main rationale for that is not to create too many co-processes. [1]: https://github.com/fmoralesc/neovim/tree/providers https://github.com/fmoralesc/neovim/tree/providers
- yepguy 12y ago
  Okay, it sounds like my fears are unfounded, but I still don't really understand it. What is a host in this context? I know that the plugin API is still in flux, but I really wish it was documented anyway. Actually, I'm not even sure how anyone was even able to start coding something like this without a design doc existing first.
  - fmoralesc 12y ago

hackuser 12y ago

Most importantly, thank you Bram Moolenaar! Vim is the probably my most productive tool and it's certainly my favorite. If you donated to Neovim, consider also donating to Bram's charity.[1] All of us who have benefited so much, and for free, from Bram's efforts owe him thanks, respect and much more. [1] http://iccf-holland.org/ http://iccf-holland.org/ (I'm a satisfied Vim user and see no need for any major revision. Perhaps others with different needs feel differently, and it has been discussed before: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7287668 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7287668 )

unclebunkers 12y ago
Just curious why no love for ol Bill Joy?
- fritzo 12y ago
  And Tim Thompson

banachtarski 12y ago

Is there any way to link to neovim as a C library instead of using the messaging protocol? Also, where is the documentation of the protocol? I wasn't able to find it after a few minutes of browsing.

RexRollman 12y ago

Totally off topic but this reminds me that I need to see if I can figure out how to get Nvi to compile on OS X Mavericks. I know, I know, but it has a special place in my heart because it was the first version of Vi that I ever used.

saidajigumi 12y ago
The project seems intent on keeping the build and distribution processes up to date along with the evolving codebase. For example, you can install now via Homebrew: brew install --HEAD https://raw.github.com/neovim/neovim/master/neovim.rb From there, it's not going to be difficult to get a build from your own clone up and running.
- aeosynth 12y ago
  nvi is a reimplementation of vi, and is unrelated to neovim, a refactoring of vim
  - RexRollman 12y ago
    Correct. By the great Keith Bostic!
bch 12y ago
Use NetBSDs pkgsrc: http://www.pkgsrc.org http://www.pkgsrc.org

elwell 12y ago

What's the equivalent of Newvim for Emacs? I had hopes for Deuce [0], but it seems stagnant. [0] - https://github.com/hraberg/deuce https://github.com/hraberg/deuce "Emacs under Clojure"

mwfogleman 12y ago
Not quite the same, but I am excited about Emacs adopting Git. I think that'll be a major boon to its development.
Avshalom 12y ago
The GuileEmacs project probably.
- Crito 12y ago
  The GuileEmacs project never really getting off the ground with much momentum is probably the only reason I still use Vim. ELisp just kills any motivation I have to 'make emacs my own'.
edeion 12y ago
There was Climacs http://common-lisp.net/project/climacs/ http://common-lisp.net/project/climacs/ which aimed at re-implementing emacs in Common Lisp.

varkson 12y ago

If they can make Vim feel more modern and allow plugins to integrate better, I'd be very very happy to move to this software.

atdt 12y ago

Kudos for keeping up the commitment to publish regular updates. The newsletter gives the whole project a feeling of momentum and integrity.

TheSoftwareGuy 12y ago

I haven't been keeping up with neovim, but does it completely freak the fuck out whenever I forget I have caps lock on the way that vim does?

TheSoftwareGuy 12y ago
I seem to be getting downvoted, not really sure why.

cranium 12y ago

:x == :wq (I love conciseness.)