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I agree that the same principle could bring decision-making down to a highly-localised level, which could actually be a very good thing, but, again, you are jus

I agree that the same principle could bring decision-making down to a highly-localised level, which could actually be a very good thing, but, again, you are just technically wrong to suggest that Scotland is an arbitrary region: It entered the union as Scotland, legally it is bound to leave the union in the same form. Whether the Shetlanders later decide to push for independence is a separate issue. As it stands, you've chosen a tough position if you want to argue that Scotland is not a very distinct country. Bear in mind that they already have an entirely separate legal system, consumer laws, NHS, educational system etc. More importantly, they overwhelming self-identify as Scottish, regardless of whether they happen to be voting yes or no in the current referendum. Wales may push for independence at some point. Perhaps Cornwall might care enough about it too. The most interesting independence question, however, is England: I have yet to meet an Englishman who has a true sense of what his country is or how to square the massive difference between London and the rest of the country. By the way, you are wrong about the control you think we have. Yes, we get to send MPs down to Westminster, but that did not do a thing to stop the massive moral and financial tragedies of Afghanistan and Iraq, which the Scottish, right across the political spectrum, where overwhelming against. We also have no say in the storing of Europe's biggest arsenal of nuclear weapons just a few miles down the road from our most heavily populated city. No English region would agree to that (would you?), but the Scottish MPs are always out-voted 10-1. That is not democracy.

chrisseaton 12y ago
"By the way, you are wrong about the control you think we have. Yes, we get to send MPs down to Westminster, but that did not do a thing to stop the massive moral and financial tragedies of Afghanistan and Iraq, which the Scottish, right across the political spectrum, where overwhelming against." But again, you can say this for any level: "People who live near Heathrow have no say over whether or not it gets a third runway. Yes their MP can vote against it but the Heathrow MP will always be out-voted by the rest of the commons". (I don't know the real opinion of them or their MP, it's an example). I can't resolve the problem in my mind of it being an arbitrary division of the population. You could find pockets of people overwhelmingly in favour or against some issue all around the country. Is it not democracy because they don't get their way? Of course not. What size does a region have to be to be able to veto policy to satisfy your democracy condition?
blibble 12y ago
> It entered the union as Scotland, legally it is bound to leave the union in the same form. based on what? your gut feeling? the UK parliament can do whatever it wishes, a concept known as parliamentary sovereignty. > Yes, we get to send MPs down to Westminster, but that did not do a thing to stop the massive moral and financial tragedies of Afghanistan and Iraq, which the Scottish, right across the political spectrum, where overwhelming against. your representatives, Scottish Labour, voted for both wars, but let's not let facts get in the way of Yes...

chrisseaton 12y ago

"By the way, you are wrong about the control you think we have. Yes, we get to send MPs down to Westminster, but that did not do a thing to stop the massive moral and financial tragedies of Afghanistan and Iraq, which the Scottish, right across the political spectrum, where overwhelming against." But again, you can say this for any level: "People who live near Heathrow have no say over whether or not it gets a third runway. Yes their MP can vote against it but the Heathrow MP will always be out-voted by the rest of the commons". (I don't know the real opinion of them or their MP, it's an example). I can't resolve the problem in my mind of it being an arbitrary division of the population. You could find pockets of people overwhelmingly in favour or against some issue all around the country. Is it not democracy because they don't get their way? Of course not. What size does a region have to be to be able to veto policy to satisfy your democracy condition?

blibble 12y ago

> It entered the union as Scotland, legally it is bound to leave the union in the same form. based on what? your gut feeling? the UK parliament can do whatever it wishes, a concept known as parliamentary sovereignty. > Yes, we get to send MPs down to Westminster, but that did not do a thing to stop the massive moral and financial tragedies of Afghanistan and Iraq, which the Scottish, right across the political spectrum, where overwhelming against. your representatives, Scottish Labour, voted for both wars, but let's not let facts get in the way of Yes...