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"but simply disregarding the time frame seems pretty safe" All depends. Once again you could be right but I could also argue under the theory that "once you ma

by larrys 12y ago

"but simply disregarding the time frame seems pretty safe" All depends. Once again you could be right but I could also argue under the theory that "once you make a sale you close and get your ass out of dodge". Because things can and do change. Keep in mind that an open offer not taken can be withdrawn. Or new information can come up which makes it less attractive or gives someone a reason to change their mind. I offer this not as specific advice given the topic but more generally that there are deals that are lost by "dicking around". I've both seen this happen to others and have had it happen to deals I have done. In one case Se______a Capital wanted to buy something that I had. I decided to go for a higher amount. Something happened and then they didn't want it at any price. Not even the original offer. Not at all. Same technique I had used for years that never failed. But it failed in this case. But there is a difference in my case. It's part of my business to sell what they were trying to buy from me. It wasn't a one shot deal. So I could afford to employ a method that had worked for me for years and be wrong in this one instance.

tptacek 12y ago
When a deal dies like that, it's sometimes hard to tell whether it died because of how you negotiated, or whether it died because it started out dead, and your negotiating tactics just qualified it quickly.
- larrys 12y ago
  A great observation and one of the ways that I rationalized the loss was by saying to myself exactly the same thing.
haliax 12y ago
How would you advise someone to learn how to negotiate and get better at negotiation?
- rgraham 12y ago
  Practice when you have a chance. Read 'Getting to Yes' and 'Bargaining for Advantage.' Use the principles when making any large purchase or changing jobs. Most retail cashiers can also give 10% discounts without approval. Find opportunities to negotiate. Buy things on craigslist and be patient. If you read the books, you'll also see more everyday situations and compromises as chances to use negotiating skills. There's no reason it needs to be money. If you're in software you can also read patio11's valuable thoughts: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/
- larrys 12y ago
  Practice. Lots' of practice. And practice in cases where the outcome doesn't matter even if you have to make up situations to practice on or negotiate for others. In addition to my own deals which I obviously work on, I also, some time ago, took on negotiating deals for others since it was fun to do. I ended up having enough takers that I started to have to charge for doing that. While the amount I am paid wouldn't make it attractive full time [1] (besides there are no residuals which I like) it still is something I do just to keep my mind active and since I have the flexibility to take chances where the outcome isn't as important. And to me, it's fun. I get a great buzz from having the correct analysis lead to a positive outcome. In some ways it's better than money. Another thing that is good practice is simply to try and make deals for others that is to put deals together or what I might will call "shoot the gap". I do that all the time. I'll see something that I think could be helpful to 2 different people and without even getting paid for it I will try to convince both of them that they should get together on some business issue. Then when if reply or are negative I will try and overcome the objections to make a deal happen. Risk always enters into negotiation. If you are willing to lose you can take more chances because you aren't as worried about going bust. If you can't lose (you really need something) you have to be more careful and can't be as reckless. [1] Because in the end it's more money in my pocket doing things on my own account time wise although there is a great benefit to doing it for others as well I gather more data because there are more situations to work in and around.
  - eru 12y ago
    > Practice. Lots' of practice. And practice in cases where the outcome doesn't matter even if you have to make up situations to practice on or negotiate for others. Playing Diplomacy (and similar games) works for some. P.S. I'd like to get in touch for some thoughts on negotiation.
- pmarca 12y ago
  The best book is "No": http://www.amazon.com/No-Only-Negotiating-System-Need/dp/0307345742 http://www.amazon.com/No-Only-Negotiating-System-Need/dp/030... And there's a reason that's the title :-).
ganeumann 12y ago
In your case there's an excellent chance the deal wouldn't have gone through even if you had agreed to their initial offer. The something that happened would have happened anyway, and a firm like Se____a would probably not worry too much about retracting an offer (assuming it was a term sheet or a signed-but-not-closed contract with a MAE out.)

by larrys 12y ago

tptacek 12y ago

When a deal dies like that, it's sometimes hard to tell whether it died because of how you negotiated, or whether it died because it started out dead, and your negotiating tactics just qualified it quickly.

larrys 12y ago
A great observation and one of the ways that I rationalized the loss was by saying to myself exactly the same thing.

haliax 12y ago

How would you advise someone to learn how to negotiate and get better at negotiation?

rgraham 12y ago
Practice when you have a chance. Read 'Getting to Yes' and 'Bargaining for Advantage.' Use the principles when making any large purchase or changing jobs. Most retail cashiers can also give 10% discounts without approval. Find opportunities to negotiate. Buy things on craigslist and be patient. If you read the books, you'll also see more everyday situations and compromises as chances to use negotiating skills. There's no reason it needs to be money. If you're in software you can also read patio11's valuable thoughts: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/
larrys 12y ago
Practice. Lots' of practice. And practice in cases where the outcome doesn't matter even if you have to make up situations to practice on or negotiate for others. In addition to my own deals which I obviously work on, I also, some time ago, took on negotiating deals for others since it was fun to do. I ended up having enough takers that I started to have to charge for doing that. While the amount I am paid wouldn't make it attractive full time [1] (besides there are no residuals which I like) it still is something I do just to keep my mind active and since I have the flexibility to take chances where the outcome isn't as important. And to me, it's fun. I get a great buzz from having the correct analysis lead to a positive outcome. In some ways it's better than money. Another thing that is good practice is simply to try and make deals for others that is to put deals together or what I might will call "shoot the gap". I do that all the time. I'll see something that I think could be helpful to 2 different people and without even getting paid for it I will try to convince both of them that they should get together on some business issue. Then when if reply or are negative I will try and overcome the objections to make a deal happen. Risk always enters into negotiation. If you are willing to lose you can take more chances because you aren't as worried about going bust. If you can't lose (you really need something) you have to be more careful and can't be as reckless. [1] Because in the end it's more money in my pocket doing things on my own account time wise although there is a great benefit to doing it for others as well I gather more data because there are more situations to work in and around.
- eru 12y ago
  > Practice. Lots' of practice. And practice in cases where the outcome doesn't matter even if you have to make up situations to practice on or negotiate for others. Playing Diplomacy (and similar games) works for some. P.S. I'd like to get in touch for some thoughts on negotiation.
pmarca 12y ago
The best book is "No": http://www.amazon.com/No-Only-Negotiating-System-Need/dp/0307345742 http://www.amazon.com/No-Only-Negotiating-System-Need/dp/030... And there's a reason that's the title :-).

ganeumann 12y ago

In your case there's an excellent chance the deal wouldn't have gone through even if you had agreed to their initial offer. The something that happened would have happened anyway, and a firm like Se____a would probably not worry too much about retracting an offer (assuming it was a term sheet or a signed-but-not-closed contract with a MAE out.)