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"A dear friend and excellent negotiator told me that when he gets any kind of short-term exploding offer, the first thing he does" As someone who considers him
by larrys 12y ago
"A dear friend and excellent negotiator told me that when he gets any kind of short-term exploding offer, the first thing he does"
As someone who considers himself an excellent negotiator (and gets paid to do negotiating) [1] I'd really caution someone from employing a technique that someone else uses that you don't have experience with. Negotiating is all nuance it's not engineering or an exact science. Go try and read a book on it if you want. (I can always tell someone who is fresh from reading a book.)
Actually exactly for this reasons:
"I don't want to be responsible for anyone losing a deal"
Of course, it's easy when someone else is taking all the risk.
"when someone offers you an exploding offer, it's because they really, really want you to take it."
Could be. But there are cases where this is not true. How lucky do you feel in interpreting all the signals based on a limited time as a negotiator?
And getting back to what Sam has said:
"Sometimes they say they have a fixed amount of desk space, but in practice, if a good company wants to join late, they always make room."
Things are never always clear cut. Very possible your company is borderline and you don't fall into a "must have" category. By even YC's own thoughts there are many more qualified companies than they can accept. Not everyone is a superstar that can write their own terms.
"Any deadline claim has to be concrete and believable."
How so? You ask them? You investigate? You poke around? General advice the specifics are much harder.
In any case the last thing you want to do (according to at least my method which might differ from another negotiators method) when you are negotiating is tip your hand. And if someone is bluffing the last thing you want to do is let them know or that you think that they are bluffing. As such saying anything that sounds like "prove it" is certainly a way to do that.
In negotiating often people claim something that isn't true and bluff. It's part of the game. The idea is not to make them prove it. The idea is to figure it out on your own and use it to your advantage.
[1] It's a game.
- tptacek 12y agoDeliberately waiting until the offer ostensibly expires seems like an advanced technique, but simply disregarding the time frame seems pretty safe. Exploding offers are incredibly weak; they're a way of slapping your negotiating floor on the table before your counterparty says a word. There's something to be said for the idea that losing a seed funding deal to term explosion is a dodged bullet, too.
- larrys 12y ago"but simply disregarding the time frame seems pretty safe" All depends. Once again you could be right but I could also argue under the theory that "once you make a sale you close and get your ass out of dodge". Because things can and do change. Keep in mind that an open offer not taken can be withdrawn. Or new information can come up which makes it less attractive or gives someone a reason to change their mind. I offer this not as specific advice given the topic but more generally that there are deals that are lost by "dicking around". I've both seen this happen to others and have had it happen to deals I have done. In one case Se______a Capital wanted to buy something that I had. I decided to go for a higher amount. Something happened and then they didn't want it at any price. Not even the original offer. Not at all. Same technique I had used for years that never failed. But it failed in this case. But there is a difference in my case. It's part of my business to sell what they were trying to buy from me. It wasn't a one shot deal. So I could afford to employ a method that had worked for me for years and be wrong in this one instance.
- tptacek 12y agoWhen a deal dies like that, it's sometimes hard to tell whether it died because of how you negotiated, or whether it died because it started out dead, and your negotiating tactics just qualified it quickly.
- larrys 12y agoA great observation and one of the ways that I rationalized the loss was by saying to myself exactly the same thing.
- haliax 12y agoHow would you advise someone to learn how to negotiate and get better at negotiation?
- rgraham 12y agoPractice when you have a chance. Read 'Getting to Yes' and 'Bargaining for Advantage.' Use the principles when making any large purchase or changing jobs. Most retail cashiers can also give 10% discounts without approval. Find opportunities to negotiate. Buy things on craigslist and be patient. If you read the books, you'll also see more everyday situations and compromises as chances to use negotiating skills. There's no reason it needs to be money. If you're in software you can also read patio11's valuable thoughts: http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/ http://www.kalzumeus.com/2012/01/23/salary-negotiation/
- nedwin 12y agoI'd love to hear more about your experience in negotiation. What resources do you recommend? Has this mostly come from experience or elsewhere? If you want to take it off list: dwyer.ed@gmail.com :)
- larrys 12y agoExperience starting quite a long time ago. And geez there's a boatload of things to take into account and they have to become second nature (like playing a sport or self defense) so you just have to spend time and practice all the time and keep practicing. I actually keep my own notes on all my thoughts and techniques that pop into my mind. Here is one as example. Timing. Timing is important. I take into account not only how quickly someone replies but how quickly I reply or get back to someone. There is a reason and a strategy behind what people do in most, but of course not all cases. Even the time of day they reply and the length of the reply and exactly the words they use as well. Say when you propose something how quickly do they get back to you? All context in different cases means different things. Also timing as far as when you spring things upon people. For example I'm currently in the process of getting my bathroom quoted for remodeling. I've settled on a particular vendor that I'm pretty sure I will use. We've been going back and forth on details for probably 6 to 8 weeks. They've given me pricing and I haven't asked or said anything regarding getting a discount. At all. I also haven't asked for any exact details on products they are using. I don't care at this point. What I will do is most likely bring up a discount at the very end of the process. When they have already spent time on the deal and don't want to lose it. [1] I will also bring up other factors to them (non monetary but convenience for us) at the end. I know they won't be as likely to blow off those concerns after the big investment in time they have made. [1] After listening to my war stories my ex wife used the same technique against me when we were ready to sign our divorce papers. At the very end as we sat there the deal all done and papers ready to sign she said "I'll only sign if you also pay for my trip to XYZ". While I could have walked she knew me well enough to know that I wouldn't and actually I was kind of proud that she had listened and learned. Which is another point in order to negotiate you have to know as much as you can about the motivations of the other side as possible. (So research is important).
- 12y ago
- ThrustVectoring 12y agoThe advice I've been given about negotiating exploding offers is that you first ask for more time. If they say yes, then you just got something of value for free. If they say no, they've improved your negotiating position.