4 ms·

> someone who starts before first contact about how they're not going to sign my NDA (without even finding out if I would require that) is definitely not going

> someone who starts before first contact about how they're not going to sign my NDA (without even finding out if I would require that) is definitely not going to be hired. I wouldn't sign an NDA first either. I'd at least want to have a brief description of the idea first. Anybody who values what they work on would do the same. What if you're already working on a similar idea? If you sign an NDA and then realize their idea is similar to your idea then they can potentially take legal action when you're just executing your own idea.

jacquesm 12y ago
> What if you're already working on a similar idea? Then you shouldn't be looking for contract work in order to execute someone else's ideas. But if this is the case then 30 seconds into them explaining their idea you can interrupt them and point out that you are conflicted because you are already working on this idea and then likely they will just pull you from their list as a supplier. You then confirm the proceedings of that meeting in an email and that's that. It is as if people think that if they sign an NDA they will for sure be sued, but this is not the case. Breaking an NDA means that you learned something unique, that you did something with that unique knowledge to the detriment of the person you signed the NDA with. If you have a project in your repo clearly documenting the history of your project to that date then you can simply cite that in your email documenting your conflict of interest using the pre-existing work as the reason and that's likely all that you'll ever hear about it. An irrational operator can sue you for any reason whatsoever, especially if you're successful. NDA's or not are not going to make a very large difference there. You sign them with the full intention of not wanting to break them. If you hit a conflict of interest (and that should in that particular case happen in the first few minutes of the conversation post signing the NDA) then you simply declare a conflict of interest and end the conversation, or give the prospect the option to continue in the full knowledge of this.
- bonestamp2 12y ago
  > if this is the case then 30 seconds into them explaining their idea you can interrupt them and point out that you are conflicted because you are already working on this idea and then likely they will just pull you from their list as a supplier. My point is that it's much safer to get that 30 second description before entering into a legal agreement, especially since it's usually with someone you barely know.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    If you're that worried simply don't take the job. Trying to get a customer to move on a pre-condition is a losing battle, better to focus your limited acquisition budget elsewhere it is not as if work is hard to find. The article could have just as well been titled 'why we won't be doing certain jobs'.
- wpietri 12y ago
  > Then you shouldn't be looking for contract work in order to execute someone else's ideas. Your serious claim is that nobody should ever fund their own projects by doing contract work?
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    No, that you shouldn't be soliciting customers who are in the same line of work as where you are developing. So if your schtick is writing software that controls micro-wave ovens then you don't go and build micro-wave oven controls as a side project. That way you avoid conflicts of interest. Do not compete with your customers is simply sensible advice.
    - jdmichal 12y ago
      > No, that you shouldn't be soliciting customers who are in the same line of work as where you are developing. Except your entire stance is that you should be 100% willing to sign an NDA before you even know what they're working on.
    - wpietri 12y ago
      This is about novice entrepreneurs, who are basically unsolicitable, because they could be anybody. And it specifically says that this is about "the first stage of a potential relationship", at which point you may not know that there's a conflict. Indeed, that there's a conflict may be unknowable given how young businesses change over time. And an actual conflict of interest is rarely the problem; what clients generally freak about is their perception of a conflict of interest, which novice entrepreneurs can have very broad perceptions of. "You're working with another person who sells stuff on the Internet? But we plan one day to sell everything, not just cross country skiing supplies. You're just going to steal our secrets for them!" So yeah, "Do not compete with your customers" is sensible advice, but it's an especially good reason not to sign an NDA for initial discussions. Then potential clients won't tell you things that might be problematic in a competitive situation.

jacquesm 12y ago

> What if you're already working on a similar idea? Then you shouldn't be looking for contract work in order to execute someone else's ideas. But if this is the case then 30 seconds into them explaining their idea you can interrupt them and point out that you are conflicted because you are already working on this idea and then likely they will just pull you from their list as a supplier. You then confirm the proceedings of that meeting in an email and that's that. It is as if people think that if they sign an NDA they will for sure be sued, but this is not the case. Breaking an NDA means that you learned something unique, that you did something with that unique knowledge to the detriment of the person you signed the NDA with. If you have a project in your repo clearly documenting the history of your project to that date then you can simply cite that in your email documenting your conflict of interest using the pre-existing work as the reason and that's likely all that you'll ever hear about it. An irrational operator can sue you for any reason whatsoever, especially if you're successful. NDA's or not are not going to make a very large difference there. You sign them with the full intention of not wanting to break them. If you hit a conflict of interest (and that should in that particular case happen in the first few minutes of the conversation post signing the NDA) then you simply declare a conflict of interest and end the conversation, or give the prospect the option to continue in the full knowledge of this.

bonestamp2 12y ago
> if this is the case then 30 seconds into them explaining their idea you can interrupt them and point out that you are conflicted because you are already working on this idea and then likely they will just pull you from their list as a supplier. My point is that it's much safer to get that 30 second description before entering into a legal agreement, especially since it's usually with someone you barely know.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  If you're that worried simply don't take the job. Trying to get a customer to move on a pre-condition is a losing battle, better to focus your limited acquisition budget elsewhere it is not as if work is hard to find. The article could have just as well been titled 'why we won't be doing certain jobs'.
wpietri 12y ago
> Then you shouldn't be looking for contract work in order to execute someone else's ideas. Your serious claim is that nobody should ever fund their own projects by doing contract work?
- jacquesm 12y ago
  No, that you shouldn't be soliciting customers who are in the same line of work as where you are developing. So if your schtick is writing software that controls micro-wave ovens then you don't go and build micro-wave oven controls as a side project. That way you avoid conflicts of interest. Do not compete with your customers is simply sensible advice.
  - jdmichal 12y ago
    > No, that you shouldn't be soliciting customers who are in the same line of work as where you are developing. Except your entire stance is that you should be 100% willing to sign an NDA before you even know what they're working on.
  - wpietri 12y ago
    This is about novice entrepreneurs, who are basically unsolicitable, because they could be anybody. And it specifically says that this is about "the first stage of a potential relationship", at which point you may not know that there's a conflict. Indeed, that there's a conflict may be unknowable given how young businesses change over time. And an actual conflict of interest is rarely the problem; what clients generally freak about is their perception of a conflict of interest, which novice entrepreneurs can have very broad perceptions of. "You're working with another person who sells stuff on the Internet? But we plan one day to sell everything, not just cross country skiing supplies. You're just going to steal our secrets for them!" So yeah, "Do not compete with your customers" is sensible advice, but it's an especially good reason not to sign an NDA for initial discussions. Then potential clients won't tell you things that might be problematic in a competitive situation.