7 ms·

Snowden could be granted asylum in Switzerland in order to testify against NSA

75 points by phearme 12y ago

spacefight 12y ago
The swiss gov would need to find a new way to grant asylum first - as since a couple of months, one needs to apply for asylum directly in Switzerland.
- EthanHeilman 12y ago
  The Swiss embassy in Moscow, Russia[0] is Swiss territory. This is how Julian Assange got asylum as well. [0]: http://www.eda.admin.ch/moscow http://www.eda.admin.ch/moscow
  - ck2 12y ago
    I saw something recently where British taxpayers have paid millions now in overtime because the government insists on 24/7 police surrounding the embassy where Assange has been living.
    - RexRollman 12y ago
      Serves them right.
    - toomuchtodo 12y ago
      Helicopter?
    - m1596 12y ago
      That seems like an unnecessarily spiteful act to me. An expensive game of cat & mouse. I can't believe that British taxpayers aren't the least bit miffed at the government taking their tax dollars and wasting it on something as frivolous as this.
      - ibisum 12y ago
        I think the problem is more that there is a large segment of the British populace who actually want this policing to occur, and thats why its happening. To some segments of British society, there is nothing more abhorrent than someone trying to 'take down the state' or 'step out of their position in line' .. if it were not the case, it wouldn't be happening. The British people get the government they want ..
  - tptacek 12y ago
    Not that it impacts the point you're trying to make, but it's a misconception that embassies are the territories of the countries they represent. The Swiss embassy in Moscow is Russian sovereign territory.
    - eps 12y ago
      Ha! Indeed - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_mission#Extraterritoriality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_mission#Extraterrito...
gambiting 12y ago
I wonder if Russia would let him go if Switzerland did really grant him an Asylum.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  Of course they will. How he will get there is another matter, he'll have to cross at least two other countries and we've already seen a plane ordered down in order for it to be searched. Whether some nation in the flightpath from Russia to Switzerland would have the required fortitude to do that to a plane owned by the Swiss government is another matter entirely. Pissing off Bolivia is probably a mild '2' in international relationships, pissing off the Swiss would likely rate a '9' or so.
  - tomp 12y ago
    > Of course they will. You haven't really substantiated your claim. I assume the parent poster was referring to the fact that Snowden is (potentially) a very valuable asset.
    - jacquesm 12y ago
      Snowden has repeatedly asserted that the documents are out of his control, the only value that he has is in a potential barter deal with the US. Since even in the cold war spies were traded rather than those that fled their home country I highly doubt such a scenario could materialize. It would also make Putin look even worse than he already does on the international stage, and more importantly he'd look bad in the eyes of his own people (assuming they'd ever hear about it). Snowdens main value to Russia has so far been of the PR variety (And mostly for the home front at that, 'sticking it to the USA'). If you wish to make the case that Snowden will not be permitted to leave Russia then I think that is the claim that needs substantiation, rather than the opposite. Maybe you're right and they won't let him go but that would need a plausible scenario first.
  - sfk 12y ago
    He can also fly Aeroflot. Highly unlikely to be ordered down by anyone.
new_id_123 12y ago
I know a few people here, American and others, that will gladly buy him a drink. He's often toasted at parties. Of course there's the pesky issue of him being an active intelligence agent when he was stationed in Geneva by the CIA. Some of his claims about bribing Swiss police seem made up though.
fh973 12y ago
Switzerland has a tradition of being a prison of choice. http://www.nysun.com/arts/drrenmatts-prison-of-paradox/48164/ http://www.nysun.com/arts/drrenmatts-prison-of-paradox/48164...
- dan_bk 12y ago
  At the same time, no EU country has the courage to do what Switzerland is discussing now (Germany's Merkel has even publicly refused to even discuss the matter). This is one reason why it is also a good thing to NOT have every country join the EU - centralize power and it becomes very interesting as a target for corruption.
lukasm 12y ago
Not sure if this is the right place to go considering Polanski's case.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  Polanski was eventually released and was never granted asylum in Switzerland.
  - comrade1 12y ago
    I see him in Gstaad every year. He's a tiny guy.
saosebastiao 12y ago
This is a major political power maneuver. As long as Snowden is in Russia, Obama can control the messaging. He is, after all, cooperating with an important physical threat to, if not outright enemy of the United States. Asylum in Switzerland, along with all the mental associations with its neutrality and sovereignty, puts Obama in a much trickier position. Probably not enough to turn the tide, but it forces Obama to address the situation with a subset of his constituents who are not as easily convinced by "Murica is Awesome!" style arguments.
- AJ007 12y ago
  Snowden leaving the country would provide good timing for Russia to de-escalate their Western relations. On the other hand this could be years out. I suspect Putin may rather cut off the gas while waiting for another major economic contraction and debt default cycle breaking up at least pieces of the EU. Switzerland now has grudges against the US for destroying their bank secrecy. If Bloomberg news is to be believed, both capital and humans are leaving the country as a result.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - romanixromanix 12y ago
    >> Switzerland now has grudges against the US for destroying their bank secrecy. That's not the way Switerland's politicians think. Swiss politics is dominated by lawyers, farmers and other lobbyists.
marquis 12y ago
A well-written face-to-face interview with Snowden published recently: http://www.wired.com/2014/08/edward-snowden/ http://www.wired.com/2014/08/edward-snowden/ He seems very resigned to his fate of hiding - I hope in his future he may safely walk outside again.
- cryoshon 12y ago
  It may take a generation, but Snowden will come home, eventually, once we throw the fascists out. He's a hero. We seem very far from that right now, but we are getting closer and closer.
hughdbrown 12y ago
I can see why Snowden is heroic for alerting the American people to the unconstitutional acts of their government, but I fail to see how other countries are owed such consideration. In particular, the idea that Snowden could trade information on foreign intelligence operations for asylum is puzzling.
- deciplex 12y ago
  >In particular, the idea that Snowden could trade information on foreign intelligence operations for asylum is puzzling. Has he done that? I thought a condition of his asylum in Russia was precisely that he not leak anything further.
- ibisum 12y ago
  >information on foreign intelligence operations Just so its clear, the USA broke - and continues to break - many international laws regarding human rights. Snowden would be giving evidence on this fact, not trading information on intelligence operations.

75 points by phearme 12y ago

The swiss gov would need to find a new way to grant asylum first - as since a couple of months, one needs to apply for asylum directly in Switzerland.

EthanHeilman 12y ago
The Swiss embassy in Moscow, Russia[0] is Swiss territory. This is how Julian Assange got asylum as well. [0]: http://www.eda.admin.ch/moscow http://www.eda.admin.ch/moscow
- ck2 12y ago
  I saw something recently where British taxpayers have paid millions now in overtime because the government insists on 24/7 police surrounding the embassy where Assange has been living.
  - RexRollman 12y ago
    Serves them right.
  - toomuchtodo 12y ago
    Helicopter?
  - m1596 12y ago
    That seems like an unnecessarily spiteful act to me. An expensive game of cat & mouse. I can't believe that British taxpayers aren't the least bit miffed at the government taking their tax dollars and wasting it on something as frivolous as this.
    - ibisum 12y ago
      I think the problem is more that there is a large segment of the British populace who actually want this policing to occur, and thats why its happening. To some segments of British society, there is nothing more abhorrent than someone trying to 'take down the state' or 'step out of their position in line' .. if it were not the case, it wouldn't be happening. The British people get the government they want ..
- tptacek 12y ago
  Not that it impacts the point you're trying to make, but it's a misconception that embassies are the territories of the countries they represent. The Swiss embassy in Moscow is Russian sovereign territory.
  - eps 12y ago
    Ha! Indeed - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_mission#Extraterritoriality http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diplomatic_mission#Extraterrito...

gambiting 12y ago

I wonder if Russia would let him go if Switzerland did really grant him an Asylum.

jacquesm 12y ago
Of course they will. How he will get there is another matter, he'll have to cross at least two other countries and we've already seen a plane ordered down in order for it to be searched. Whether some nation in the flightpath from Russia to Switzerland would have the required fortitude to do that to a plane owned by the Swiss government is another matter entirely. Pissing off Bolivia is probably a mild '2' in international relationships, pissing off the Swiss would likely rate a '9' or so.
- tomp 12y ago
  > Of course they will. You haven't really substantiated your claim. I assume the parent poster was referring to the fact that Snowden is (potentially) a very valuable asset.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    Snowden has repeatedly asserted that the documents are out of his control, the only value that he has is in a potential barter deal with the US. Since even in the cold war spies were traded rather than those that fled their home country I highly doubt such a scenario could materialize. It would also make Putin look even worse than he already does on the international stage, and more importantly he'd look bad in the eyes of his own people (assuming they'd ever hear about it). Snowdens main value to Russia has so far been of the PR variety (And mostly for the home front at that, 'sticking it to the USA'). If you wish to make the case that Snowden will not be permitted to leave Russia then I think that is the claim that needs substantiation, rather than the opposite. Maybe you're right and they won't let him go but that would need a plausible scenario first.
- sfk 12y ago
  He can also fly Aeroflot. Highly unlikely to be ordered down by anyone.

new_id_123 12y ago

I know a few people here, American and others, that will gladly buy him a drink. He's often toasted at parties. Of course there's the pesky issue of him being an active intelligence agent when he was stationed in Geneva by the CIA. Some of his claims about bribing Swiss police seem made up though.

fh973 12y ago

Switzerland has a tradition of being a prison of choice. http://www.nysun.com/arts/drrenmatts-prison-of-paradox/48164/ http://www.nysun.com/arts/drrenmatts-prison-of-paradox/48164...

dan_bk 12y ago
At the same time, no EU country has the courage to do what Switzerland is discussing now (Germany's Merkel has even publicly refused to even discuss the matter). This is one reason why it is also a good thing to NOT have every country join the EU - centralize power and it becomes very interesting as a target for corruption.

lukasm 12y ago

Not sure if this is the right place to go considering Polanski's case.

jacquesm 12y ago
Polanski was eventually released and was never granted asylum in Switzerland.
- comrade1 12y ago
  I see him in Gstaad every year. He's a tiny guy.

saosebastiao 12y ago

This is a major political power maneuver. As long as Snowden is in Russia, Obama can control the messaging. He is, after all, cooperating with an important physical threat to, if not outright enemy of the United States. Asylum in Switzerland, along with all the mental associations with its neutrality and sovereignty, puts Obama in a much trickier position. Probably not enough to turn the tide, but it forces Obama to address the situation with a subset of his constituents who are not as easily convinced by "Murica is Awesome!" style arguments.

AJ007 12y ago
Snowden leaving the country would provide good timing for Russia to de-escalate their Western relations. On the other hand this could be years out. I suspect Putin may rather cut off the gas while waiting for another major economic contraction and debt default cycle breaking up at least pieces of the EU. Switzerland now has grudges against the US for destroying their bank secrecy. If Bloomberg news is to be believed, both capital and humans are leaving the country as a result.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- romanixromanix 12y ago
  >> Switzerland now has grudges against the US for destroying their bank secrecy. That's not the way Switerland's politicians think. Swiss politics is dominated by lawyers, farmers and other lobbyists.

marquis 12y ago

A well-written face-to-face interview with Snowden published recently: http://www.wired.com/2014/08/edward-snowden/ http://www.wired.com/2014/08/edward-snowden/ He seems very resigned to his fate of hiding - I hope in his future he may safely walk outside again.

cryoshon 12y ago
It may take a generation, but Snowden will come home, eventually, once we throw the fascists out. He's a hero. We seem very far from that right now, but we are getting closer and closer.

hughdbrown 12y ago

I can see why Snowden is heroic for alerting the American people to the unconstitutional acts of their government, but I fail to see how other countries are owed such consideration. In particular, the idea that Snowden could trade information on foreign intelligence operations for asylum is puzzling.

deciplex 12y ago
>In particular, the idea that Snowden could trade information on foreign intelligence operations for asylum is puzzling. Has he done that? I thought a condition of his asylum in Russia was precisely that he not leak anything further.
ibisum 12y ago
>information on foreign intelligence operations Just so its clear, the USA broke - and continues to break - many international laws regarding human rights. Snowden would be giving evidence on this fact, not trading information on intelligence operations.