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Definitely not true. There are plenty of people in Wales and Northern Ireland wondering what it means for them if Scotland does leave the union.

by bagnus 12y ago

netcan 12y ago
I imagine this will be confusing for Northern Ireland Unionists, and Republicans probably. It's hard not to see this as a precedent. Perhaps even a precedent in international geopolitics. If Scotland has an inalienable right to secede by popular referendum, Why not Iraqi Kurdistan? Why Not Turkish Kurdistan? Why not Crimea?
- soneil 12y ago
  It's going to be incredibly confusing for Northern Ireland. Historically, and culturally, they have much closer ties to Scotland than England/Wales. So what happens when the unionists find themselves left attached to 'the wrong union'?
  - netcan 12y ago
    It's a layered and weaved history. Northern Ireland's Gaelic culture is historically related to Isle of Mann and Northwest Scotland's Gaelic cultures. At certain points in history the spoken dialects, kinships and such were closer between these regions then they were between Northern Ireland and other parts of Ireland. Dublin was a Gaelic-Viking town, later a Anglo-Irish-Norman town. During the 16th-18th centuries, "The Plantations" there was a lot of migration of Loyalists from the Scottish Lowland. Their descendants make up the majority of the island's Presbyterians. Some still call themselves (or their subdialect of English) Ulster (Norther Ireleand) Scots. Obviously there is even more weaving and layering. There are mountains of historical threads, cultural similarities. The Highland clan system is related to the Northern Irish system. There was trade dating back to prehistoric times. When Irish Nationalism was on the rise, strongly Republican and strongly Catholic, these people developed their own Unionist political identity. The whole thing is predicated on being in the United Kingdom. With political identities UK becoming Welsh, Scottish, English, even Mannish (Is there a Cornish nationalism?), where does that leave the Ulster Scots (who generally don't go by that demonym)? Confusing. Maybe it will confuse some sense into the situation.
    - gadders 12y ago
      See also: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28756531 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28756531
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
  - netcan 12y ago
    Not a strong one in the context of international law. But, There was a Crimean referendum and as illegitimate as it was, Crimea is now permanently Russian and the majority of locals seem to be alright with that. If the UK releases Scotland peacefully and legally with full international recognition of the process and another region with national aspirations does the same elsewhere in the EU... That's how common law is made. Common law is hard to deny. Obviously there's hair. Who gets to call a referendum? Who gets to gerrymander it? etc.
blibble 12y ago
seems unlikely that either of those regions will wish to leave the union, as unlike Scotland they are both heavily subsidised by England (to the tune of about half of their budget).

Definitely not true. There are plenty of people in Wales and Northern Ireland wondering what it means for them if Scotland does leave the union.

by bagnus 12y ago

Definitely not true. There are plenty of people in Wales and Northern Ireland wondering what it means for them if Scotland does leave the union.

netcan 12y ago

I imagine this will be confusing for Northern Ireland Unionists, and Republicans probably. It's hard not to see this as a precedent. Perhaps even a precedent in international geopolitics. If Scotland has an inalienable right to secede by popular referendum, Why not Iraqi Kurdistan? Why Not Turkish Kurdistan? Why not Crimea?

soneil 12y ago
It's going to be incredibly confusing for Northern Ireland. Historically, and culturally, they have much closer ties to Scotland than England/Wales. So what happens when the unionists find themselves left attached to 'the wrong union'?
- netcan 12y ago
  It's a layered and weaved history. Northern Ireland's Gaelic culture is historically related to Isle of Mann and Northwest Scotland's Gaelic cultures. At certain points in history the spoken dialects, kinships and such were closer between these regions then they were between Northern Ireland and other parts of Ireland. Dublin was a Gaelic-Viking town, later a Anglo-Irish-Norman town. During the 16th-18th centuries, "The Plantations" there was a lot of migration of Loyalists from the Scottish Lowland. Their descendants make up the majority of the island's Presbyterians. Some still call themselves (or their subdialect of English) Ulster (Norther Ireleand) Scots. Obviously there is even more weaving and layering. There are mountains of historical threads, cultural similarities. The Highland clan system is related to the Northern Irish system. There was trade dating back to prehistoric times. When Irish Nationalism was on the rise, strongly Republican and strongly Catholic, these people developed their own Unionist political identity. The whole thing is predicated on being in the United Kingdom. With political identities UK becoming Welsh, Scottish, English, even Mannish (Is there a Cornish nationalism?), where does that leave the Ulster Scots (who generally don't go by that demonym)? Confusing. Maybe it will confuse some sense into the situation.
  - gadders 12y ago
    See also: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28756531 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-28756531
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
- netcan 12y ago
  Not a strong one in the context of international law. But, There was a Crimean referendum and as illegitimate as it was, Crimea is now permanently Russian and the majority of locals seem to be alright with that. If the UK releases Scotland peacefully and legally with full international recognition of the process and another region with national aspirations does the same elsewhere in the EU... That's how common law is made. Common law is hard to deny. Obviously there's hair. Who gets to call a referendum? Who gets to gerrymander it? etc.

blibble 12y ago

seems unlikely that either of those regions will wish to leave the union, as unlike Scotland they are both heavily subsidised by England (to the tune of about half of their budget).