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Al-Jazari
- Zaheer 12y agoFor the curious, book available at: http://www.scribd.com/doc/200133822/The-Book-of-Knowledge-of-Ingenious-Mechanical-Devices http://www.scribd.com/doc/200133822/The-Book-of-Knowledge-of...
- vdfs 12y agoIn the gold old days, Tricks science was what we know now as Mechanics. This was a smart naming for this new science field, so people won't link it with Magic, which is forbidden in Islam.
- oblio 12y agoPlease continue posting such links. I know some people would like only links about "hacking" (i.e. coding), but such articles really make me understand the "we are standing on the shoulders of giants" quote. Especially about lesser advertised cultures such as the Islamic one.
- ekianjo 12y ago> Especially about lesser advertised cultures such as the Islamic one. The idea of a singular entity called "Islamic culture" is something very recent in History though, Pan-Islamism. That's from the 19th century at best.
- crystaln 12y agoI highly recommend picking up a book covering the history of invention and thought rather than waiting for such posts to hit meme status at random moments on HN.
- oblio 12y agoWho said that I don't read those? Your reply is a bit condescending. The stages of learning include total ignorance, when you don't know that you don't know something (or that the thing you don't know would interest you). We're social animals for several reasons - one of them is that we can teach each other. HN is quite a knowledgeable community, so the advice/pointers are in general more useful than just random Google searches or sifting through Amazon reviews, for example.
- w1ntermute 12y agoWhat alphabet is used for the letters in the diagrams[0]? It's not Arabic, and it looks sort of like Greek (or maybe Phoenician), but different. 0. Such as this one: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Al-jazari_water_device.jpg http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/06/Al-jazari...
- MaysonL 12y agoSeems like an alchemical alphabet such as: http://www.925-1000.com/alchemy.html http://www.925-1000.com/alchemy.html http://alchemylab.com/download_fonts.htm http://alchemylab.com/download_fonts.htm
- amiraliakbari 12y agoIt is Arabic, for example "من بین الحوضین" on the beginning of the first line means "between the two tanks".
- w1ntermute 12y agoI don't mean the caption at the top. I'm referring to the letters on the diagram itself: http://i.imgur.com/Bj31AxJ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Bj31AxJ.jpg
- KhalilK 12y agoaha, well it does look like Old Turkic Alphabet[0], I am not sure. 0.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Turkic_alphabet#Table_of_characters http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Turkic_alphabet#Table_of_ch... Edit: Some characters don't seem to render properly, an Image seems more practical. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Turkic_alphabet#mediaviewer/File:Thomsen_Orkhon_table_1893.png http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Turkic_alphabet#mediaviewer...
- w1ntermute 12y agoDo you know why he didn't just use Arabic characters? Based on a brief survey of the Arabic Wikipedia, it looks like Latin letters are standard for variables in math these days, but what was the reason for using non-Arabic characters back then?
- bbayer 12y agoThere are numerous number of Muslim scientists who contributes a lot to modern mathematics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%E1%B8%A5ammad_ibn_M%C5%ABs%C4%81_al-Khw%C4%81rizm%C4%AB http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%E1%B8%A5ammad_ibn_M%C5%ABs%C...
- KhalilK 12y agoI remember learning all about Al Jazari (and all of the other Muslim scientists, philosophers and doctors at that time) back in primary school. As an Arab I can't help but feel both proud, of such achievements, and yet so sad, because of the state of decline the Islamic contribution to the scientific advancement has known.
- rikacomet 12y agomy brother, that is a bit out of context. Don't be sad about it. Success passes on to those, who work hard for the greater cause. One should have rivals, but no enemies ;)
- nayefc 12y agoOnce we replace "Islamic contribution" with "Arab contribution", we will move forward.
- vdfs 12y agoThat is not true. Can you give me the name of a scientist before Islam?
- tidderton 12y agoYou know what, it is. Also, Mohammad was a misogynist pedophile warlord. Ideas from medieval ages have no place in the 21st century. (Down-votes from PC folks welcome)
- quinnchr 12y agoI'm pretty sure we still find plenty of use in the ideas much older than that... Do we not still teach the ideas of Pythagoras et al? I'm pretty sure what you're trying to say is religion has no place in the 21st century. Also fun fact, the early days of Islam saw huge steps forward for women's rights, more so than pretty much any other culture at the time (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_feminism#Early_reforms_under_Islam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_feminism#Early_reforms_...). I'm curious why you Mohammed was a misogynist and what that has to do with Islam?
- selimthegrim 12y agoFor some reason, this guy never gets any love. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Shatir https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Shatir
- rikacomet 12y agoYes, I know of him due to Tusi Couple, which I briefly read about when I was going through Copernicus's work.
- selimthegrim 12y agoOldie but goodie: http://people.sc.fsu.edu/~dduke/models.htm http://people.sc.fsu.edu/~dduke/models.htm The Tusi couple is like halfway down and the link right above it allows you to compare and contrast models.
- rikacomet 12y agohttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna The first to use Cannula to help a choking patient. Also contributed to the foundation of Unani (Greek-Arab) Medicine system.
- davidgerard 12y agoAvicenna is awesome, the equivalent of the greatest of the ancient Greeks. His name comes up these days mostly courtesy alternative medicine woo pushers, which is way worse than he deserves.
- Nux 12y agoThe Islamic Golden Age is pretty fantastic, not the first time I heard about it and usually a cause of pride among my muslim friends (and for good reason). Too bad we're witnessing the Islamic Dark Ages right now.
- rodgerd 12y agoOne would like to think, along with the slow disintegration of Western Rome, that it might serve as an object lesson to people who naively assume that progress is inevitable and will solve all our problems.
- frozenport 12y agoSeems like they have been going for the last 700 years. Which makes me feel that the feelings of pride my Muslim friends feel are unjustified as they have very little in common with the world that made al-Jazari. Or perhaps more importantly, the rest of the world has advanced in 700 years, but they have staid behind.
- lotsofpulp 12y agoGenerally, I don't completely get why do humans feel pride for things they didn't have anything to do with? Probably has something to do with ego.
- knodi123 12y agomore about tribalism. "I share in the glory of every member of my tribe".
- chetanahuja 12y agoAlso known as "Teamwork". The basic mechanisms of tribalism are the same whether the scale is a world religion, a country, a ship's crew, a basketball team or whatever.
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- arjn 12y agoInteresting, thanks for posting. I new about semi-automatons created for the Turkish rulers for entertainment but not about Al Jazari. I would like to add that the Persian, Arab and Turkish empires benefited greatly from Chinese, Indian, Roman and Greek math, technology and science that had been developed much earlier. This frequently gets glossed over or completely ignored.
- nraf 12y agoI wouldn't say it gets completely ignored. Pretty much everything I read about the subjects mentions how the Muslims translated into Arabic, expanded upon, corrected and were influenced by the work of earlier cultures.
- vdfs 12y agoThe Banū Mūsā brothers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban%C5%AB_M%C5%ABs%C4%81 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ban%C5%AB_M%C5%ABs%C4%81 "The most popular of their publications was the Kitāb al-Ḥiyal (The Tricks Book), which was mostly the work of Aḥmad, the middle brother, was a book filled with one hundred mechanical devices. There were some real practical inventions in the book including a lamp that would mechanically dim, alternating fountains, and a clamshell grab. Eighty of these devices were described as "trick vessels" that showed a real mastery of mechanics, with a real focus on the use of light pressure. Some of the devices seem to be replications of earlier Greek works, but the rest were much more advanced than what the Greeks had done."
- walterbell 12y agoWe need vcs/git fork graphs for historical inventions and improvements, including tracking of multiple "upstream" candidates when origins are disputed. HN members in different cultures could help curate the dependency graphs on github. Related: Project Gitenberg, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8214564 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8214564
- vdfs 12y agoIbn Tufail the writer of "Hayy ibn Yaqdhan", the first Arabic novel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayy_ibn_Yaqdhan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayy_ibn_Yaqdhan "Hayy ibn Yaqdhan had a significant influence on Arabic literature, Persian literature, and European literature, and went on to become an influential best-seller throughout Western Europe in the 17th and 18th centuries. The work also had a "profound influence" on both Islamic philosophy and modern Western philosophy. It became "one of the most important books that heralded the Scientific Revolution" and European Enlightenment, and the thoughts expressed in the novel can be found "in different variations and to different degrees in the books of Thomas Hobbes, John Locke, Isaac Newton, and Immanuel Kant."George Sarton considered the novel "one of the most original books of the Middle Ages."
- why-el 12y agoOf equal importance to HN readers is work by both Ibn Khaldun [1] and Ibn Rushd (Latinized as Averroes) [2]. There are more accessible to Western readers, as both were champions of Aristotelian (analytic) philosophy. Ibn Khaldun is rightly being labeled by some as the founder of systematic sociology. One of the great Muslim intellectual rivalries was the one between Averros and Al Ghazali [3], one that I won't spoil for anyone but it's a sublime look into efforts by Averroes to inject pure rationality and reason into discussions of the theological. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Khaldun http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_Khaldun [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ghazali
- tzs 12y agoAnother interesting Arab from that general period is Ahmad al-Tifashi [1]. He was a poet, writer, and anthologist, mainly known for his anthology "Promenade of the Hearts" of poetry, jokes, and anecdotes of an erotic nature or about sexual practices. An English translation of the gay chapters is available: "The Delight of Hearts: Or What You Will Not Find in Any Book" [2]. I've got it, and it is an amusing, entertaining, and eye-opening read. For a very very long time, I've had a little puzzle on my website. Someone is caught with the following items: 1. A large needle and thread 2. A roll of paper 3. Three small pebbles 4. A small bag of fine-grained dust 5. A small empty waterskin 6. A pair of scissors 7. A canteen full of cream 8. A fur cap 9. A purse full of counterfeit coins 10. A raw egg What are they planning? For the first time, I will give a hint: the answer is in "The Delight of Hearts". [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_al-Tifashi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmad_al-Tifashi [2] http://www.amazon.com/The-Delight-Hearts-What-Will/dp/0940567091 http://www.amazon.com/The-Delight-Hearts-What-Will/dp/094056...
- selimthegrim 12y agoIn the same vein, Abu Nuwas did a lot more than clown around for Harun al-Rashid in the Arabian Nights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Nuwas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Nuwas
- sentientmachine 12y agoIsis approves of this pro islamic link. Hacker news no longer a place for programmers, its a place for politics. Religion of peace is the best, we should allow sharia law controlled jurisdictions effective immediately. Now is the time to usher in the Islamic golden age.
- walterbell 12y agoCan anyone recommend books on the cross-cultural history of mathematics? I've found these: 1) Georges Ifrah, "Universal History of Numbers", http://www.amazon.com/Universal-History-Numbers-Prehistory-Invention/dp/0471375683/ http://www.amazon.com/Universal-History-Numbers-Prehistory-I... "the first complete account of the invention and evolution of numbers the world over ... Dubbed the "Indiana Jones of numbers," Georges Ifrah traveled all over the world for ten years to uncover the little-known details of this amazing story. From India to China, and from Egypt to Chile, Ifrah talked to mathematicians, historians, archaeologists, and philosophers." 2) Paul Calter, "Squaring the Circle: Geometry in Art & Architecture", http://www.amazon.com/Squaring-Circle-Geometry-Art-Architecture/dp/0470412127/ http://www.amazon.com/Squaring-Circle-Geometry-Art-Architect... "the combination of the subject knowledge of design, architecture, art, geometry, philospohy, music theory, and mathematics ... Calter includes the basic lessons and explanations of a regular Geometry course in his book, but then he interweaves an integrated classical curriculum (based on deductive reasoning)"
- askar_yu 12y agoslightly OT, but I've enjoyed N J Wildberger's lectures on History of Math: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW8Cy6WrO94&list=PL55C7C83781CF4316 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW8Cy6WrO94&list=PL55C7C83781... It's a good coverage of fundamental theorems in Math with well balanced historical touch.
- JonnieCache 12y agoYou'd certainly find something to interest you in the Ascent Of Man documentary series, although it covers many other areas. Cosmos was based on it. Potentially the greatest television programme ever IMO.
- walterbell 12y agoThanks for the pointer. Civilization looks good too.
- dobbsbob 12y agohttp://press.princeton.edu/titles/8350.html http://press.princeton.edu/titles/8350.html Princeton Companion to Mathematics
- dmix 12y agoThere is a 13min video with Sir Ben Kingsley as Al-Jazari on Youtube "1001 Inventions and The Library of Secrets": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZDe9DCx7Wk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZDe9DCx7Wk
- tzs 12y agoInteresting coincidence (?)...right now (6 PM PDT), "History 2" channel is showing season 3, episode 2 of "Ancient Discoveries", "Machines of the East": "Examining the inventions of Arab engineer Al-Jazari, who lived in what is now modern Turkey in the 13th century, whose designs included a water clock and a variety of geared mechanisms".
- michaelsbradley 12y agoThe medieval polymaths were a fascinating bunch! Hildegard of Bingen[1] was a contemporary of al-Jazari, and one of the most influential European women of the late Middles Ages. In 2012, Pope Benedict XVI named her a Doctor of the Church[2] – a title given by the Catholic Church to only 35 people over the past 2,000 years! [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildegard_of_Bingen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildegard_of_Bingen [&] http://www.hildegard-society.org/p/academic-sources.html http://www.hildegard-society.org/p/academic-sources.html [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_the_Church http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_the_Church
- acqq 12y agoBut I don't see that she did any engineering, which is why al-Jazari is potentially interesting. Regarding al-Jazari, the question is only how significant he really was, compared to the centuries older Greek engineers like those that produced, for example, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
- MisterBastahrd 12y agoImportance is a matter of influence, I suppose. I'm sure there have been repeat discoveries in the past which have been lost to the ages due to a variety of factors. The ones that remained a part of stable civilizations are the ones we remember.
- acqq 12y agoI am however suggesting that the Arabs and Turks haven't actually reinvented the art of engineering which was known in the antique times as they obviously invaded the exact places where that art was already present and that there must be some of them that found that art interesting who are the ones who preserved it in the times of religious fanaticism and destruction.
- molixiaoge 12y agogreat
- peteretep 12y agoWhy does it lead by describing him as a Muslim? I don't see anything else in the article that refers to that - he's not noted as a Imam or a Koran scholar or anything similar. Wouldn't it make more sense to simply say he was from an area that today is Turkey?
- infinitone 12y agoNot sure what Turkey has to do with him. But it makes sense to attribute someone to country/empire at the time he lived in. Which is the Islamic Empire. So saying he was Muslim, is as much as saying a scientist today residing in the US is American. Contrary to popular western belief, Islam is one of the main enablers for these great scientists... as many were "influenced by the Quranic injunctions and hadiths, such as "the ink of a scholar is more holy than the blood of a martyr," that stressed the value of knowledge.'" But more than that, is the amount of government funding and salaries these guys would get (in some cases, what would amount to today's pro athletes'). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Golden_Age
- deciplex 12y agoI think it's using 'Muslim' as an ethnicity, which is of course incorrect. This would explain why his religious stuff isn't noted anywhere else. I encourage you to amend the article :-)
- projectramo 12y agoBy this point, most threads on anything vaguely arab have descended into flame wars and what not. I can't believe Hacker News has managed to keep the discussion (over 87%) civil. I am in awe.