4 ms·

Almost everything involving a bank costs money. Checking accounts have both monthly fees and overdraft fees. Check books cost money. If you're well-off, as v

by agwa 12y ago

Almost everything involving a bank costs money. Checking accounts have both monthly fees and overdraft fees. Check books cost money. If you're well-off, as virtually all HN commenters are, the fees aren't a big deal or they're waived entirely. If you're poor, as virtually all the victims of roadside asset forfeiture are, the fees are significant so you just don't use banks. That means you end up having to carry large amounts of cash. Now, you prefixed your comment with "This is by no means a justification" so this isn't directed at you, but one of the reasons the criminal justice system is so messed up is because people in a position of power (judges, prosecutors, but also voters) don't realize what it's like to be poor, so when a poor person does something that they wouldn't do (like carrying large sums of cash), they assume it's either suspicious, or if not suspicious, foolish, so the poor person deserves what he/she gets. A bit of empathy could go a long way here.

kohanz 12y ago
I can see how one might come to the assumption that the victims here are "poor", and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are, but I didn't see any suggestion of that in the article. I would presume that the less well-off victims did not have the legal resources (as these men did) to challenge the police's actions. Of the three victims that were profiled, 2 were business owners, all 3 (presumably) owned vehicles, and were carrying anywhere from $18k to $75. Now, that doesn't mean they were well off, but it's also not sounding like most people's definition of poverty. Surely business owners have to deal with the costs of bank transactions. Again, I'm not trying to blame the victims here. I think they were wronged and that the police are overstepping their mandate. I do empathize with what happened to them. However, I've had enough experiences in life to form the belief that while at the same time you should stand up and speak against wrongdoings like this, you should also protect yourself as best you can, knowing that these things, sadly, will happen. That's where my original question originated from. For example, I don't keep valuables in my car, because while I know that the thieves who break into my car once or twice a year are completely in the wrong, I know I am putting myself at risk if I leave stuff in there for them to take. I'm not going to leave stuff in the car out of principle, because it's my "right".
- agwa 12y ago
  Don't read too much into the fact that they own restaurants. They are probably very small businesses and don't make much money. They're likely sole proprietorships or general partnerships so they aren't a separate legal entity and might not even have bank accounts, so their owners would not be used to dealing with bank transactions. You can actually be much poorer owning a business than having a steady job. And owning a car is a virtual necessity in America, so even the poor have them. Don't confuse poor with destitute. One should be able to proffer advice without it being victim-blaming, but I do question the utility of offering advice which is difficult for the intended recipient to follow. Also remember we don't hear about the cases where cops don't seize cash, so the risk of carrying cash might be more tolerable than giving up some of your hard-earned money to banks.
  - Zigurd 12y ago
    Also, many restaurant owners are immigrants. I speak passable German and fluent Latvian and it would still be a bear to slog through multi-page legal documents in either of those languages, and I could easily make a mistake for not knowing local norms.

by agwa 12y ago

kohanz 12y ago

I can see how one might come to the assumption that the victims here are "poor", and I wouldn't be surprised if some of them are, but I didn't see any suggestion of that in the article. I would presume that the less well-off victims did not have the legal resources (as these men did) to challenge the police's actions. Of the three victims that were profiled, 2 were business owners, all 3 (presumably) owned vehicles, and were carrying anywhere from $18k to $75. Now, that doesn't mean they were well off, but it's also not sounding like most people's definition of poverty. Surely business owners have to deal with the costs of bank transactions. Again, I'm not trying to blame the victims here. I think they were wronged and that the police are overstepping their mandate. I do empathize with what happened to them. However, I've had enough experiences in life to form the belief that while at the same time you should stand up and speak against wrongdoings like this, you should also protect yourself as best you can, knowing that these things, sadly, will happen. That's where my original question originated from. For example, I don't keep valuables in my car, because while I know that the thieves who break into my car once or twice a year are completely in the wrong, I know I am putting myself at risk if I leave stuff in there for them to take. I'm not going to leave stuff in the car out of principle, because it's my "right".

agwa 12y ago
Don't read too much into the fact that they own restaurants. They are probably very small businesses and don't make much money. They're likely sole proprietorships or general partnerships so they aren't a separate legal entity and might not even have bank accounts, so their owners would not be used to dealing with bank transactions. You can actually be much poorer owning a business than having a steady job. And owning a car is a virtual necessity in America, so even the poor have them. Don't confuse poor with destitute. One should be able to proffer advice without it being victim-blaming, but I do question the utility of offering advice which is difficult for the intended recipient to follow. Also remember we don't hear about the cases where cops don't seize cash, so the risk of carrying cash might be more tolerable than giving up some of your hard-earned money to banks.
- Zigurd 12y ago
  Also, many restaurant owners are immigrants. I speak passable German and fluent Latvian and it would still be a bear to slog through multi-page legal documents in either of those languages, and I could easily make a mistake for not knowing local norms.