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Don't you Americans feel ashamed of your country? Your country is beginning to stink. In many respects it is worse than third world countries. How is this diff

Don't you Americans feel ashamed of your country? Your country is beginning to stink. In many respects it is worse than third world countries. How is this different from some third world country where police stop cars to collect bribes from drivers? Well I'll tell you. In America the whole administration, the judiciary, the legal profession, the government at federal,state and county level are in on it. It seems that it succeeds basically because it is too expensive to get justice through the courts, this means that the courts and legal profession are in on it too. In third world countries is just the police and their superiors who get the money, and it generally petty cash. It looks like it is not terrorists who are going to destroy America after all. Your corrupt governments, banks, judiciary and law enforcement will do it on their own. A justice system which only the rich can afford is not a justice system in principle or in practice. The funny thing is that it has been going on for decades and it looks like the Washingon Post just noticed, as though they didn't know about it ages ago.

kghose 12y ago
Don't come here. It's terrible. Just terrible. Do not apply for a visa here. It's a TRAP!
- Beltiras 12y ago
  I'm a well educated and skillful professional and can do my job from basically anywhere in the world. I wouldn't even vacation in the US. I am terrified of the legal framework I would subject myself to, especially as a citizen. I'm perfectly willing to work for clients in the US, but face to face meeting will take place OUTSIDE the US.
  - kghose 12y ago
    Don't come here. Don't even work for US clients. They are nasty, nasty I tell you. I'm one of them.
  - Estragon 12y ago
    It's not too bad as long as you're rich and white.
wyclif 12y ago
Yes, whatever you do, please don't come here on a visa. It's awful. Terrible. A horrible, nasty place. Run away, far, far away while you still can. You should never come here. Tell all your friends.
kordless 12y ago
First off, you are using a TON of blaming statements (which are mostly ad hominem) and are using a trolling technique to attempt poll others for feelings. It's a nasty habit and your comments only serve to make someone angry. I believe you are aware of your intent and only use it to illicit fear. We still have enough liberty here that this article can run in the newspaper freely. That is evidence enough America is far from stinky. Do we have unfair levers of power here? Yes. Are we attempting to determine how the levers got into a few people's control? Yes. Will we figure out how to stop them and keep it from happening again? You bet we will. And none of that will come to pass because of your crappy comments. It'll happen because we are Americans and aren't going to allow our liberties to being eroded by a bunch of fear mongering asshats. And THAT, my friends, is a blaming statement.
- angersock 12y ago
  Eh, their post was their opinion, and they've got some decent points. Your accusation of ad hominem is misapplied--go look it up. The observation was made that the real damage to the US would come from within and not without. This seems trivially easy to "prove" if you keep up with the news and history. The observation was made that broad swathes of government and private practice were in league to perpetuate these issues. Such behavior is expected because of the mechanism of action at work: the rot and the power is in the legislative and judicial systems, so of course those folks will be acting in concert. The observation was made that in other "corrupt" countries officers routinely relieve travelers of excess pecuniary baggage, which appears to also be the case in some parts of the US. These are not ad hominem propositions, nor were they presented as such.
  - kordless 12y ago
    > their post was their opinion This is a false statement. "Your country is beginning to stink." is a blaming statement that attempts to lay out pre-support of the opinion "In many respects it is worse than third world countries". However, in the subsequent context in which it is used the statement is presented as a logical conclusion or fact. It is then followed up with another blaming statement meant to seal the 'logic' of the opinion, "It looks like it is not terrorists who are going to destroy America after all. Your corrupt governments, banks, judiciary and law enforcement will do it on their own." There is no proof that America will be destroyed by corruption inside government, banks or the judicial system. There are observations that we are threatened by some individual's actions, but there are also observations we are doing something about it. The claims we will be 'destroyed' because we are 'corrupt as a third world country' are simply false. There is no evidence this will occur and it is pure conjecture. While I agree with you it probably started as an opinion the comment, in general, their comments consititued an irrelevant conclusion. Irrelevant because it was full of blaming opinion from someone outside those being blamed, and conclusion because it was presented as fact. As it turns out, irrelevant conclusions fall into a broad of set of relevance fallacies, which themselves are 'ad hominem' arguments. Look it up.
marincounty 12y ago
Yea, it's not great anymore, but with the exception of France; it's still the better alternative. That Governor who was caught taking money made me proud of our system. As to the whole Cop problem--I don't have any answers, except buy dash cams.(If you drive a vechicle). The more outrageous footage we have of these guys abusing their power the Better.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
baddox 12y ago
Disgusted by it? Yes. Ashamed? No. "Ashamed" implies that I expect better, or that I am responsible, neither of which are the case.
smutticus 12y ago
You're mostly correct in your descriptions of justice in the USA. However, as an USAian I don't feel ashamed, because I don't feel responsible. I just live here. I certainly would like the USA to suck less, but translating that into shame is something that just doesn't happen in my head. I also don't blame people for the terrible places in which they live either. I don't blame anyone for any repressive regime in which they might live. It's not fair and it's unproductive. I feel my decision to not blame people for any repressive regime they might live under is important to reforming those regimes, and ultimately having sympathy for those regimes' targets.
Roboprog 12y ago
I like most of my neighbors, and I am proud of what our country aspires to. Alas, the rich and powerful are a huge lot of real assholes. So, yes, we're a bit overdue for another round to take them down a notch or two. Once in a while, things do happen in the U.S. to piss off the assholes: * abolished slavery * gave women the right to vote * changed tax structure to try to encourage more of a meritocracy (alas, largely rolled back) * overturned prohibition (again, losing ground due to war on drugs leading to Al Capone 2.0) (maybe only once every two generations or so, but there you go) Alas, there's a list of screwups that could parallel the above list, but we're trying...

kghose 12y ago

Don't come here. It's terrible. Just terrible. Do not apply for a visa here. It's a TRAP!

Beltiras 12y ago
I'm a well educated and skillful professional and can do my job from basically anywhere in the world. I wouldn't even vacation in the US. I am terrified of the legal framework I would subject myself to, especially as a citizen. I'm perfectly willing to work for clients in the US, but face to face meeting will take place OUTSIDE the US.
- kghose 12y ago
  Don't come here. Don't even work for US clients. They are nasty, nasty I tell you. I'm one of them.
- Estragon 12y ago
  It's not too bad as long as you're rich and white.

wyclif 12y ago

Yes, whatever you do, please don't come here on a visa. It's awful. Terrible. A horrible, nasty place. Run away, far, far away while you still can. You should never come here. Tell all your friends.

kordless 12y ago

First off, you are using a TON of blaming statements (which are mostly ad hominem) and are using a trolling technique to attempt poll others for feelings. It's a nasty habit and your comments only serve to make someone angry. I believe you are aware of your intent and only use it to illicit fear. We still have enough liberty here that this article can run in the newspaper freely. That is evidence enough America is far from stinky. Do we have unfair levers of power here? Yes. Are we attempting to determine how the levers got into a few people's control? Yes. Will we figure out how to stop them and keep it from happening again? You bet we will. And none of that will come to pass because of your crappy comments. It'll happen because we are Americans and aren't going to allow our liberties to being eroded by a bunch of fear mongering asshats. And THAT, my friends, is a blaming statement.

angersock 12y ago
Eh, their post was their opinion, and they've got some decent points. Your accusation of ad hominem is misapplied--go look it up. The observation was made that the real damage to the US would come from within and not without. This seems trivially easy to "prove" if you keep up with the news and history. The observation was made that broad swathes of government and private practice were in league to perpetuate these issues. Such behavior is expected because of the mechanism of action at work: the rot and the power is in the legislative and judicial systems, so of course those folks will be acting in concert. The observation was made that in other "corrupt" countries officers routinely relieve travelers of excess pecuniary baggage, which appears to also be the case in some parts of the US. These are not ad hominem propositions, nor were they presented as such.
- kordless 12y ago
  > their post was their opinion This is a false statement. "Your country is beginning to stink." is a blaming statement that attempts to lay out pre-support of the opinion "In many respects it is worse than third world countries". However, in the subsequent context in which it is used the statement is presented as a logical conclusion or fact. It is then followed up with another blaming statement meant to seal the 'logic' of the opinion, "It looks like it is not terrorists who are going to destroy America after all. Your corrupt governments, banks, judiciary and law enforcement will do it on their own." There is no proof that America will be destroyed by corruption inside government, banks or the judicial system. There are observations that we are threatened by some individual's actions, but there are also observations we are doing something about it. The claims we will be 'destroyed' because we are 'corrupt as a third world country' are simply false. There is no evidence this will occur and it is pure conjecture. While I agree with you it probably started as an opinion the comment, in general, their comments consititued an irrelevant conclusion. Irrelevant because it was full of blaming opinion from someone outside those being blamed, and conclusion because it was presented as fact. As it turns out, irrelevant conclusions fall into a broad of set of relevance fallacies, which themselves are 'ad hominem' arguments. Look it up.

marincounty 12y ago

Yea, it's not great anymore, but with the exception of France; it's still the better alternative. That Governor who was caught taking money made me proud of our system. As to the whole Cop problem--I don't have any answers, except buy dash cams.(If you drive a vechicle). The more outrageous footage we have of these guys abusing their power the Better.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

baddox 12y ago

Disgusted by it? Yes. Ashamed? No. "Ashamed" implies that I expect better, or that I am responsible, neither of which are the case.

smutticus 12y ago

You're mostly correct in your descriptions of justice in the USA. However, as an USAian I don't feel ashamed, because I don't feel responsible. I just live here. I certainly would like the USA to suck less, but translating that into shame is something that just doesn't happen in my head. I also don't blame people for the terrible places in which they live either. I don't blame anyone for any repressive regime in which they might live. It's not fair and it's unproductive. I feel my decision to not blame people for any repressive regime they might live under is important to reforming those regimes, and ultimately having sympathy for those regimes' targets.

Roboprog 12y ago

I like most of my neighbors, and I am proud of what our country aspires to. Alas, the rich and powerful are a huge lot of real assholes. So, yes, we're a bit overdue for another round to take them down a notch or two. Once in a while, things do happen in the U.S. to piss off the assholes: * abolished slavery * gave women the right to vote * changed tax structure to try to encourage more of a meritocracy (alas, largely rolled back) * overturned prohibition (again, losing ground due to war on drugs leading to Al Capone 2.0) (maybe only once every two generations or so, but there you go) Alas, there's a list of screwups that could parallel the above list, but we're trying...