4 ms·

Yes, removed it ages ago. Was trying this new analytics startup, never worked out though.

samsheen 12y ago
I've seen loads of extensions that use Google Analytics to track user behavior. They of course post this on the details page with a link to the Opt-Out. Could you tell us more about the "new analytics startup"? It seems like that's the code the reviewer was referring to (which you have said is no longer there in the extension)
mrottenkolber 12y ago
IMHO you fucked up pretty bad by having had that thing built in. After knowing that I wouldn't trust your code on my computer. Apparently these things are OK for most people nowadays, and I guess if you use Chrome you don't care about your privacy anyway, and I guess I don't trust any closed source software at all, but having analytics in a browser extension is a pretty big no-no.
- sanchitml 12y ago
  I understand your apriori response, but there is a huge difference between analytics and keylogging. Analytics in app is a tool with which we provide better and better software to the end user. This has nothing to do with privacy. Just like 10 out of 1000 people click on this button so I should remove it. 400 out of 1000 people use this feature, so I should improve it. How about educating end users on the analytics vs privacy part.
  - gazarsgo 12y ago
    Fact: Recording user behavior most certainly is a privacy issue... My opinion: ...and it should be both disclosed and opt-in.
    - goblin89 12y ago
      > Fact: Recording user behavior most certainly is a privacy issue... > My opinion: ...and it should be both disclosed and opt-in. And, perhaps, avoided completely–once your shop has resources to spare for in-house testing and usability research.
    - jdong 12y ago
      Fact: Recording user behavior is extremely common... My opinion: ...and users shouldn't act surprised by it.
    - ankitml 12y ago
      Almost all websites have analytics these days. Agreed, it should be disclosed but making it opt-in would render analytics useless as less than 1% people would agree to it. Most analytics is not even a privacy issue as clickthroughs and bounce rates do not carry any personal fingerprints.
      - aw3c2 12y ago
        i consider my IP address a personal detail as well as all the browser information that gets used as a fingerprint. The web would be a nicer place without all the analytics, I miss the 90s.
  - findjashua 12y ago
    While analytics is pretty standard, I'd specify what information the app is sending home, and that it's a standard practice (as in almost every app/site sends this data). I installed your extension, and it's fantastic - here's my 5 star review!
  - danprime 12y ago
    I noticed that Google has updated their privacy policy on using analytics https://developer.chrome.com/apps/analytics#privacy https://developer.chrome.com/apps/analytics#privacy It USED to read that you had to ask for opt-in permission BEFORE you began tracking (which is the current pattern my app follows, but how many other apps/extensions have I seen do this?.... 0). In my app, upon install/launch it prompts the user with a popup asking if they would like to help the developer out by sending anonymous data. I made it opt-in (the user had to explicitly check the box). Out of a daily 4500 Active Users, I only have 4 people who opted in (it's less than 0.1% for those who don't want to do the math). With the old policy of requiring user's permission to opt-in, it makes it really difficult for any developer (who follows the rules) to get any valid feedback. I've posted on the Google Group and Stack Overflow and the question is basically ignored because it's an open secret that most people simply treat it like any website analytics as in they embed the code to track and move on. I currently follow the Firefox pattern/language choice: [ ] Share performance, usage, hardware and customization data anonymously with the developer to help make ___ better. <<Learn More About Data Collected>> TLDR; You'll get 0.1% compliance if you make data collection opt-in and you're upfront about data collection... it sucks because it makes the whole "Collect/Analyze Data" part of Development very difficult.
    - goblin89 12y ago
      > I currently follow the Firefox pattern/language choice: > [ ] Share performance, usage, hardware and customization data anonymously with the developer to help make ___ better. <<Learn More About Data Collected>> IMO the wording is really important here. If I were to write this section of user preferences, I'd go for something like: ▸ Help improve X Click on which expands the panel: □ Allow collecting anonymized information about the usage of the application. It will be used for <reasons>. Only the following data will be sent to us over encrypted connection: <easy-to-understand list>. <<Learn more>> (I know it's easy to give advice, though, and I don't have my own product on which to test copy ideas yet.)
  - mrottenkolber 12y ago
    Analytics in a web browser extension... its just not a thing I can tolerate. Sorry.
    - sanchitml 12y ago
      It is as same as being in Mobile, you tolerate that? IMHO all static websites have analytics, yes the HTML one's too. Browser extension need tools like analytics 100x more.
      - mrottenkolber 12y ago
        No I don't tolerate analytics on my phone (thats just insane!). None of my websites have analytics, and I feel violated by the ones that do. Especially newspaper websites are big offenders. I even go as far that my custom build web server does not have a log. I don't want to know who visits my website, in fact if I had a log I'd get rid of it like it was the plague. Why don't you just ask your customers what they want? That's what I do, I believe I also get more accurate information that way.
- findjashua 12y ago
  I don't think analytics is what you think it means. Analytics is NOT a key/screenshot logger. It's just sending data about what parts of the app the user is using, which can help you improve the app.
  - mrottenkolber 12y ago
    Actually I am a software engineer. So I know pretty well what I am talking about.
tokenizerrr 12y ago
I just installed your extension and looked at the source. The Google tracking/analytics code appears to still be there at least, both in popup.js (referenced by popup.html) and in jquery.js (which is apparently more than just jquery?). At least it seems that all you're tracking is behavioral info, but still it seems a bit much. Especially for an extension that calls itself private and secure.
- sanchitml 12y ago
  How should I mention that private & secure is about the 'note data', not how much time menu item was opened. Also I enquired about the privacy issue in Google Analytics, only thing I got was: - "Google tracks that visit via the user's IP address in order to determine the user's approximate geographic location." I am using is custom events. Lets say I do not use Google-Analytics but my own server who just record custom events (anonymized IP Addresses) then the app will be considered private and secure. Read Privacy Issue section on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics#Privacy_issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics#Privacy_issues. What I feel from all these is - it is justified to call the app secure as its about the user data, not anonymized behaviour analysis. That is only for app improvement, and independent of a particular person (ie. privacy).
  - tokenizerrr 12y ago
    What I'm saying is that an app which claims to be secure & private should not be running any kind of analytics on user behavior in their browser.
  - eps 12y ago
    > Lets say I do not use Google-Analytics but my own server who just record custom events (anonymized IP Addresses) then the app will be considered private and secure. Hahaha... No, of course it will not be. No app with phone-home analytics is private.
    - ankitml 12y ago
      An app promising keeping your notes and note data private doesnt necessarily need to avoid analytics. Analytics and aggregate user data cant be avoided if a developer wants to improve user experience. Keeping users and their experience at the center isnt a bad thing. Your note data isnt logged to any servers in this app.

I've seen loads of extensions that use Google Analytics to track user behavior. They of course post this on the details page with a link to the Opt-Out. Could you tell us more about the "new analytics startup"? It seems like that's the code the reviewer was referring to (which you have said is no longer there in the extension)

mrottenkolber 12y ago

IMHO you fucked up pretty bad by having had that thing built in. After knowing that I wouldn't trust your code on my computer. Apparently these things are OK for most people nowadays, and I guess if you use Chrome you don't care about your privacy anyway, and I guess I don't trust any closed source software at all, but having analytics in a browser extension is a pretty big no-no.

sanchitml 12y ago
I understand your apriori response, but there is a huge difference between analytics and keylogging. Analytics in app is a tool with which we provide better and better software to the end user. This has nothing to do with privacy. Just like 10 out of 1000 people click on this button so I should remove it. 400 out of 1000 people use this feature, so I should improve it. How about educating end users on the analytics vs privacy part.
- gazarsgo 12y ago
  Fact: Recording user behavior most certainly is a privacy issue... My opinion: ...and it should be both disclosed and opt-in.
  - goblin89 12y ago
    > Fact: Recording user behavior most certainly is a privacy issue... > My opinion: ...and it should be both disclosed and opt-in. And, perhaps, avoided completely–once your shop has resources to spare for in-house testing and usability research.
  - jdong 12y ago
    Fact: Recording user behavior is extremely common... My opinion: ...and users shouldn't act surprised by it.
  - ankitml 12y ago
    Almost all websites have analytics these days. Agreed, it should be disclosed but making it opt-in would render analytics useless as less than 1% people would agree to it. Most analytics is not even a privacy issue as clickthroughs and bounce rates do not carry any personal fingerprints.
    - aw3c2 12y ago
      i consider my IP address a personal detail as well as all the browser information that gets used as a fingerprint. The web would be a nicer place without all the analytics, I miss the 90s.
- findjashua 12y ago
  While analytics is pretty standard, I'd specify what information the app is sending home, and that it's a standard practice (as in almost every app/site sends this data). I installed your extension, and it's fantastic - here's my 5 star review!
- danprime 12y ago
  I noticed that Google has updated their privacy policy on using analytics https://developer.chrome.com/apps/analytics#privacy https://developer.chrome.com/apps/analytics#privacy It USED to read that you had to ask for opt-in permission BEFORE you began tracking (which is the current pattern my app follows, but how many other apps/extensions have I seen do this?.... 0). In my app, upon install/launch it prompts the user with a popup asking if they would like to help the developer out by sending anonymous data. I made it opt-in (the user had to explicitly check the box). Out of a daily 4500 Active Users, I only have 4 people who opted in (it's less than 0.1% for those who don't want to do the math). With the old policy of requiring user's permission to opt-in, it makes it really difficult for any developer (who follows the rules) to get any valid feedback. I've posted on the Google Group and Stack Overflow and the question is basically ignored because it's an open secret that most people simply treat it like any website analytics as in they embed the code to track and move on. I currently follow the Firefox pattern/language choice: [ ] Share performance, usage, hardware and customization data anonymously with the developer to help make ___ better. <<Learn More About Data Collected>> TLDR; You'll get 0.1% compliance if you make data collection opt-in and you're upfront about data collection... it sucks because it makes the whole "Collect/Analyze Data" part of Development very difficult.
  - goblin89 12y ago
    > I currently follow the Firefox pattern/language choice: > [ ] Share performance, usage, hardware and customization data anonymously with the developer to help make ___ better. <<Learn More About Data Collected>> IMO the wording is really important here. If I were to write this section of user preferences, I'd go for something like: ▸ Help improve X Click on which expands the panel: □ Allow collecting anonymized information about the usage of the application. It will be used for <reasons>. Only the following data will be sent to us over encrypted connection: <easy-to-understand list>. <<Learn more>> (I know it's easy to give advice, though, and I don't have my own product on which to test copy ideas yet.)
- mrottenkolber 12y ago
  Analytics in a web browser extension... its just not a thing I can tolerate. Sorry.
  - sanchitml 12y ago
    It is as same as being in Mobile, you tolerate that? IMHO all static websites have analytics, yes the HTML one's too. Browser extension need tools like analytics 100x more.
    - mrottenkolber 12y ago
      No I don't tolerate analytics on my phone (thats just insane!). None of my websites have analytics, and I feel violated by the ones that do. Especially newspaper websites are big offenders. I even go as far that my custom build web server does not have a log. I don't want to know who visits my website, in fact if I had a log I'd get rid of it like it was the plague. Why don't you just ask your customers what they want? That's what I do, I believe I also get more accurate information that way.
findjashua 12y ago
I don't think analytics is what you think it means. Analytics is NOT a key/screenshot logger. It's just sending data about what parts of the app the user is using, which can help you improve the app.
- mrottenkolber 12y ago
  Actually I am a software engineer. So I know pretty well what I am talking about.

tokenizerrr 12y ago

I just installed your extension and looked at the source. The Google tracking/analytics code appears to still be there at least, both in popup.js (referenced by popup.html) and in jquery.js (which is apparently more than just jquery?). At least it seems that all you're tracking is behavioral info, but still it seems a bit much. Especially for an extension that calls itself private and secure.

sanchitml 12y ago
How should I mention that private & secure is about the 'note data', not how much time menu item was opened. Also I enquired about the privacy issue in Google Analytics, only thing I got was: - "Google tracks that visit via the user's IP address in order to determine the user's approximate geographic location." I am using is custom events. Lets say I do not use Google-Analytics but my own server who just record custom events (anonymized IP Addresses) then the app will be considered private and secure. Read Privacy Issue section on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics#Privacy_issues http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Analytics#Privacy_issues. What I feel from all these is - it is justified to call the app secure as its about the user data, not anonymized behaviour analysis. That is only for app improvement, and independent of a particular person (ie. privacy).
- tokenizerrr 12y ago
  What I'm saying is that an app which claims to be secure & private should not be running any kind of analytics on user behavior in their browser.
- eps 12y ago
  > Lets say I do not use Google-Analytics but my own server who just record custom events (anonymized IP Addresses) then the app will be considered private and secure. Hahaha... No, of course it will not be. No app with phone-home analytics is private.
  - ankitml 12y ago
    An app promising keeping your notes and note data private doesnt necessarily need to avoid analytics. Analytics and aggregate user data cant be avoided if a developer wants to improve user experience. Keeping users and their experience at the center isnt a bad thing. Your note data isnt logged to any servers in this app.