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> Isn't JVM and Java libraries (i.e. "batteries") the one of the main selling points of Clojure? Yeah, but that only appeals to the people who are already comm

by exDM69 12y ago

> Isn't JVM and Java libraries (i.e. "batteries") the one of the main selling points of Clojure? Yeah, but that only appeals to the people who are already committed to the JVM (or .NET), and that is a shrinking population. There's a whole layer of complexity to deal with managed code and OOP languages and there's a bit of a impedance mismatch between a Lisp and a Java-style library and the VM itself. For people working with native code or otherwise not in the JVM ecosystem, Clojure is not really ideal.

pjmlp 12y ago
> Yeah, but that only appeals to the people who are already committed to the JVM (or .NET), and that is a shrinking population. Looking at the enterprise world, I would say it is still growing.
- exDM69 12y ago
  The enterprise world isn't exactly known for adopting new languages, JVM or not JVM. But you could provide some kind of source if you disagree, all the statistics I've seen have had Java and JVM languages in a steady downward slope for the past five years or so.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    The source is the projects my employer gets and I cannot disclose. It is a international consulting company that does large IT projects, mostly multi-site. You can imagine the possible candidates. We only get JVM (only Java) and .NET (C# / VB.NET) requests for proposals for greenfield projects. Any other platform requests tend to be pure data spikes.
  - threeseed 12y ago
    Couldn't disagree more. I work in the enterprise space and there are plenty of companies using Groovy, Scala, Clojure as well as Python/Ruby on the JVM. I know it's anecdotal but what platform do you actually think enterprises are using ? Companies are looking for cheaper options so .Net isn't exactly on fire.
    - pjmlp 12y ago
      > Companies are looking for cheaper options so .Net isn't exactly on fire. I work with Fortune 500 companies that have 100% Microsoft stacks. MSDN yearly licenses are a drop in the ocean in these companies.
    - vorg 12y ago
      > there are plenty of companies using Groovy, Scala, Clojure as well as Python/Ruby on the JVM Jython would be by far the least used of those alternatives, whereas Scala the most used. Clojure's coming up strong, JRuby's making slow inroads, Kotlin's getting some traction at Ceylon's expense, whereas Groovy's on the slide.

by exDM69 12y ago

pjmlp 12y ago

> Yeah, but that only appeals to the people who are already committed to the JVM (or .NET), and that is a shrinking population. Looking at the enterprise world, I would say it is still growing.

exDM69 12y ago
The enterprise world isn't exactly known for adopting new languages, JVM or not JVM. But you could provide some kind of source if you disagree, all the statistics I've seen have had Java and JVM languages in a steady downward slope for the past five years or so.
- pjmlp 12y ago
  The source is the projects my employer gets and I cannot disclose. It is a international consulting company that does large IT projects, mostly multi-site. You can imagine the possible candidates. We only get JVM (only Java) and .NET (C# / VB.NET) requests for proposals for greenfield projects. Any other platform requests tend to be pure data spikes.
- threeseed 12y ago
  Couldn't disagree more. I work in the enterprise space and there are plenty of companies using Groovy, Scala, Clojure as well as Python/Ruby on the JVM. I know it's anecdotal but what platform do you actually think enterprises are using ? Companies are looking for cheaper options so .Net isn't exactly on fire.
  - pjmlp 12y ago
    > Companies are looking for cheaper options so .Net isn't exactly on fire. I work with Fortune 500 companies that have 100% Microsoft stacks. MSDN yearly licenses are a drop in the ocean in these companies.
  - vorg 12y ago
    > there are plenty of companies using Groovy, Scala, Clojure as well as Python/Ruby on the JVM Jython would be by far the least used of those alternatives, whereas Scala the most used. Clojure's coming up strong, JRuby's making slow inroads, Kotlin's getting some traction at Ceylon's expense, whereas Groovy's on the slide.