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This is not a huge accomplishment, they've become a totally free app and are VC backed, so basically instead of having real paying customers, they are getting f

This is not a huge accomplishment, they've become a totally free app and are VC backed, so basically instead of having real paying customers, they are getting farmers onboard by not charging anything. Basically, I'm guessing they are hoping that Monsanto or John Deere or some other giant AG company buys them for however many millions of dollars. This might be a valid strategy, but it sucks for the farmer because they don't have an incentive to build a truly valuable product that people will pay for. There is a huge difference when you build something people pay for vs something they use because it's free. When you build a free product, the end user is not a customer, they are the product. I wonder how many farmers like being the product and not the customer.

incredulousdis 12y ago
They are used by _15%_ of farms. That is an incredible accomplishment. When was the last time you wrote software that was used by that many people? Just because its free doesn't mean people will use it regularly...
- ams6110 12y ago
  It could mean that if there's no other viable choice. How many software shops build mobile apps for farming. I would guess not many. Yet.
  - randomdata 12y ago
    As a farmer myself, I've come across a handful of apps trying to similar things. FarmLogs seems to be the most successful on the marketing side of things though.
- programminggeek 12y ago
  I'm curious how they are counting 15% of farms. If they have $11 billion worth of crops under management, I'm not sure how that is 15% of the market. According to the USDA, the total US crop value is like $166 billion in 2013. Simple math would indicate that they have closer to 6% of the market under management. That's assuming 2013 numbers, 2011 and 2012 numbers were higher and I don't know what 2014 were. I'm not sure that 15% number adds up. If the 15% number is real, that would mean they have 330,000 farms under management by the 2.2 million farms number. Otherwise, if you take the 187,000 that account for 60% of crop sales, then 15% of that number is A LOT lower in terms of user count, more like 30,000 farms. I've totally written software that was used by that many people. I've also written software that is as complicated as Farm Logs. My point was not to get in a pissing contest over who has the most users or who writes the most complicated software. My point is they are giving away their software in a market where farmers routinely spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on equipment, seed, land, rent, fuel, etc. and they are charging $0 for it. It's sort of the equivalent of giving away enterprise software. I'm not sure what the long term vision is, but I don't think free is going to be great for the farmers long term and I don't think their free sales model aligns FarmLog's goals with the farmers' goals.
dang 12y ago
This comment counts as a shallow dismissal, I think. The tell-tale sign is the combination of generic boilerplate and dissing. Generic comments alone may be low-substance, but at least don't poison the atmosphere. Dissing based on specific knowledge may be negative, but at least adds information. Put the two together, though, and you have a shallow dismissal. We don't want that in discussions here.
- programminggeek 12y ago
  I live in Nebraska and I've worked on ag related software previously. I've not heard great things about FarmLogs from farmers who used it when it was a paid product. I've never used it so I can't personally say if it's good or bad. I've worked with people who worked on similar or even competing products and I know firsthand that when you are selling a product and charging money that your perspective and priorities change A LOT. In my mind a free product for farmers feels like applying the silicon valley mindset to a Midwestern business and that it really feels like a misunderstanding of the market and the customers. There is HUGE opportunity in farm software and technology, it's incredibly terrible, but I don't feel like FarmLogs' approach is sustainable long term. That is just my perspective as a tech geek in Nebraska.
  - dang 12y ago
    This is a much better comment because it refers to your actual experience. It would be even better if you shared some of what you've learned about the farm domain and that kind of software, or some of what specifically you find wanting in FarmLogs' approach, or what specifically a better approach would require. The more concrete discussions like this can be, the more grounded and informative they are. It's the comments that dismiss others' work for generic reasons, after apparently shallow consideration, that are jarring.
- anon1385 12y ago
  Can we stop with this 'middlebrow dismissal' crap? It's a meaningless phrase that is just brought out to bludgeon people you disagree with without having to actually address their arguments. The fact that it wasn't even true in this case just shows what a worthless concept it is.
dubfan 12y ago
Monsanto already owns Climate Corp which offers similar service, with monetization. I could see John Deere picking them up though.
- programminggeek 12y ago
  I agree. John Deere or possibly Cargill feel like natural fits. If they really do get a huge market share, some company will buy them just for all the customer relationships, not the software.
badclient 12y ago
When you build a free product, the end user is not a customer, they are the product. I wonder how many farmers like being the product and not the customer. Careful because the other extreme has its own problems: my company only has paid customers who prepay for the entire year. While this has helped us pay the bills and cover cost, it has been detrimental to building a great product because we aren't getting as much feedback as we would if we had 10x users. I'm finally reaching a stage where I may take up a job just so we can give away free trials and not have to rely as much on near term revenue to pay the bills.
- sogen 12y ago
  What's your product?
- sogen 12y ago
  Why don't you give 15-30 day trials?

incredulousdis 12y ago

They are used by _15%_ of farms. That is an incredible accomplishment. When was the last time you wrote software that was used by that many people? Just because its free doesn't mean people will use it regularly...

ams6110 12y ago
It could mean that if there's no other viable choice. How many software shops build mobile apps for farming. I would guess not many. Yet.
- randomdata 12y ago
  As a farmer myself, I've come across a handful of apps trying to similar things. FarmLogs seems to be the most successful on the marketing side of things though.
programminggeek 12y ago
I'm curious how they are counting 15% of farms. If they have $11 billion worth of crops under management, I'm not sure how that is 15% of the market. According to the USDA, the total US crop value is like $166 billion in 2013. Simple math would indicate that they have closer to 6% of the market under management. That's assuming 2013 numbers, 2011 and 2012 numbers were higher and I don't know what 2014 were. I'm not sure that 15% number adds up. If the 15% number is real, that would mean they have 330,000 farms under management by the 2.2 million farms number. Otherwise, if you take the 187,000 that account for 60% of crop sales, then 15% of that number is A LOT lower in terms of user count, more like 30,000 farms. I've totally written software that was used by that many people. I've also written software that is as complicated as Farm Logs. My point was not to get in a pissing contest over who has the most users or who writes the most complicated software. My point is they are giving away their software in a market where farmers routinely spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on equipment, seed, land, rent, fuel, etc. and they are charging $0 for it. It's sort of the equivalent of giving away enterprise software. I'm not sure what the long term vision is, but I don't think free is going to be great for the farmers long term and I don't think their free sales model aligns FarmLog's goals with the farmers' goals.

dang 12y ago

This comment counts as a shallow dismissal, I think. The tell-tale sign is the combination of generic boilerplate and dissing. Generic comments alone may be low-substance, but at least don't poison the atmosphere. Dissing based on specific knowledge may be negative, but at least adds information. Put the two together, though, and you have a shallow dismissal. We don't want that in discussions here.

programminggeek 12y ago
I live in Nebraska and I've worked on ag related software previously. I've not heard great things about FarmLogs from farmers who used it when it was a paid product. I've never used it so I can't personally say if it's good or bad. I've worked with people who worked on similar or even competing products and I know firsthand that when you are selling a product and charging money that your perspective and priorities change A LOT. In my mind a free product for farmers feels like applying the silicon valley mindset to a Midwestern business and that it really feels like a misunderstanding of the market and the customers. There is HUGE opportunity in farm software and technology, it's incredibly terrible, but I don't feel like FarmLogs' approach is sustainable long term. That is just my perspective as a tech geek in Nebraska.
- dang 12y ago
  This is a much better comment because it refers to your actual experience. It would be even better if you shared some of what you've learned about the farm domain and that kind of software, or some of what specifically you find wanting in FarmLogs' approach, or what specifically a better approach would require. The more concrete discussions like this can be, the more grounded and informative they are. It's the comments that dismiss others' work for generic reasons, after apparently shallow consideration, that are jarring.
anon1385 12y ago
Can we stop with this 'middlebrow dismissal' crap? It's a meaningless phrase that is just brought out to bludgeon people you disagree with without having to actually address their arguments. The fact that it wasn't even true in this case just shows what a worthless concept it is.

dubfan 12y ago

Monsanto already owns Climate Corp which offers similar service, with monetization. I could see John Deere picking them up though.

programminggeek 12y ago
I agree. John Deere or possibly Cargill feel like natural fits. If they really do get a huge market share, some company will buy them just for all the customer relationships, not the software.

badclient 12y ago

When you build a free product, the end user is not a customer, they are the product. I wonder how many farmers like being the product and not the customer. Careful because the other extreme has its own problems: my company only has paid customers who prepay for the entire year. While this has helped us pay the bills and cover cost, it has been detrimental to building a great product because we aren't getting as much feedback as we would if we had 10x users. I'm finally reaching a stage where I may take up a job just so we can give away free trials and not have to rely as much on near term revenue to pay the bills.

sogen 12y ago
What's your product?
sogen 12y ago
Why don't you give 15-30 day trials?