4 ms·

Should Google really be selling advertising to these sites? Payday loan operations really are the scum at the bottom of the barrel.

by rbobby 12y ago

dublinclontarf 12y ago
You say that, but the people are taking these loans because they need them and no one else is giving them a better offer.
- electromagnetic 12y ago
  Exactly this. These are people with poor credit histories at high risk of defaulting and usually a track record of late payments on bills. No one will touch them without charging exorbitant fees. We either stop it and let people suffer, or we allow it to continue and people at least have some ability to continue living a somewhat decent quality of life and not homeless on the streets.
  - jacquesm 12y ago
    I don't think those are the only two options. Payday loan companies have exorbitant interest rates, in other countries there are different - and less based on graft - ways of dealing with this problem. For instance in NL we have the 'Gemeentelijke kredietbank' (https://www.degkb.nl/diensten/kredietverlening https://www.degkb.nl/diensten/kredietverlening in dutch), a bank that operates without profit motive for those in situations as you described above.
    - davidw 12y ago
      > I don't think those are the only two options. Another option is that it's made illegal, and there are no good alternatives, so "unofficial" sources for loans are found. These can range from family members to Mafias.
      - lotsofmangos 12y ago
        Currently the mafia could advertise as being cheaper than Wonga.
        jacquesm 12y ago
        Cheaper maybe but their repo men leave a lot to be desired.
        lotsofmangos 12y ago
        It is often exactly the same people, just with a different hat and script.
        davidw 12y ago
        It's probably cheaper to get a loan from the Mafia in some ways because they have different ways of recovering money from those who don't pay their debts, and more incentives at their disposition than legal companies do.
        electromagnetic 12y ago
        I don't think this works in socialist countries. "Pay up or I'll break your legs!" "Okay, you won't get your money, I get my legs fixed for free and I get disability and unemployment."
        jacquesm 12y ago
        Not everything is reversible.
        krapp 12y ago
        Having your bones broken still hurts, even if you're a socialist. Also "that disability check you'll be getting will do quite nicely as down payment if you don't want your (parent|siblings|significant other) mailed to you in pieces."
  - dspillett 12y ago
    The problem is finding the balance. They will suffer without the fresh loan, but they'll suffer more if they can't cope with the fresh loan and end up in an even bigger trap with more predatory types after them. And some companies, going by certain leaked memos that have been circulating, are designed to be evil and extract as much as possible without any pretence of trying to help their customers.
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    When the economy tanks, the government is one of the very few entities that can still borrow cheaply and in quantity. Unfortunately many governments are off flogging austerity to the public while underwriting the banks and keeping interest rates near zero. So the banks can't be bothered lending and the lender of last resort becomes the payday loans companies. Meanwhile traditional banking is busy investing in the payday loans rather than directly lending itself as bank loans follow interest rates. The USA is actually doing comparatively well in all this as it never took the austerity thing to heart as much as the Eurozone, where Germany is currently worrying about a triple-dip. edit - as far as I can tell, the reason that the interest rates have been kept so low, at least for here in the UK, is because the house price bubble must be defended at all costs. There is a large portion of the UK economy that will scream blue-murder if they stop getting massive year on year returns on simple ownership of housing and the Bank of England doesn't like pissing them off, which is going to be Mike Carney's job when he finally raises interest rates, shortly before jumping ship as the official scapegoat of the UK house price crash. Obviously this is a massive guess, but it looks somewhat likely.
    - electromagnetic 12y ago
      Mark Carney is the reason Canada basically bypassed this recession. It was so minor hear it was barely noticed, the biggest impact was the stall in new house construction. However our banks thrived, they profited by offering loans to major banks down in the US. House prices are on the up and up. Me and my wife bought just before they tightened up mortgage regulations here, since then house prices in our area have been going up by about 13% per year as banks were no longer issuing mortgages for Toronto house prices ($500k and up) as the down payment required doubled and they increased the threshold on the default insurance (you need about 15% down to get the same rate you used to at 5% down). However, the banks were being so risk averse in the recession I couldn't even get approved for a $500 credit card. I'm from the UK, so with no credit history I was an untouchable. A couple years earlier my wife with essentially negative income as a student had been handed cards left, right and centre.
patio11 12y ago
Google makes, quite literally, billions of dollars off the bottom of the barrel. There is a dark iceberg under the consumer Internet. Online pharmacies. Rebill scams. "Government grant" applications. High interest loans. Educational institutions of dubious utility (disclaimer: took one's shilling once, indirectly, and regret it a bit). Spam, scams, and the like, on a massive scale. There is a UI for AdSense publishers where some Google PM made the decision "If we give them options to tart up their website less, let's tell them how much money it costs." http://www.seobook.com/how-make-easy-money-google http://www.seobook.com/how-make-easy-money-google
- threejay 12y ago
  At least re: online pharmacy, that's patently false. Coming from someone who currently runs a legitimate online pharmacy, there is a 9-12 month accreditation process (VIPPS) that adwords, etc requires before letting you advertise.
  - ktsmith 12y ago
    Sure, after years of essentially no regulation and Google paying a massive fine.
  - patio11 12y ago
    That's presumably because Google doesn't want to be fined another $500 million for having their AdWords sales reps give their pharmacy customers advice on how to avoid Google's pharmacy compliance rules. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/google-reaches-500-million-settlement-with-government/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/google-reaches-500-...
    - otakucode 12y ago
      That would depend on whether Google is ever actually expected to PAY $500 million and whether they earned more than $500 million by breaking the law to begin with. If they made $501 million off of it, all the government has done is guarantee that is the new standard for business conduct. And usually companies that get hit with $500 million fines get that reduced to $100k or so on appeal.
GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
Didn't you get the memo? They're allowed to be evil now.

Should Google really be selling advertising to these sites? Payday loan operations really are the scum at the bottom of the barrel.

by rbobby 12y ago

Should Google really be selling advertising to these sites? Payday loan operations really are the scum at the bottom of the barrel.

dublinclontarf 12y ago

You say that, but the people are taking these loans because they need them and no one else is giving them a better offer.

electromagnetic 12y ago
Exactly this. These are people with poor credit histories at high risk of defaulting and usually a track record of late payments on bills. No one will touch them without charging exorbitant fees. We either stop it and let people suffer, or we allow it to continue and people at least have some ability to continue living a somewhat decent quality of life and not homeless on the streets.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  I don't think those are the only two options. Payday loan companies have exorbitant interest rates, in other countries there are different - and less based on graft - ways of dealing with this problem. For instance in NL we have the 'Gemeentelijke kredietbank' (https://www.degkb.nl/diensten/kredietverlening https://www.degkb.nl/diensten/kredietverlening in dutch), a bank that operates without profit motive for those in situations as you described above.
  - davidw 12y ago
    > I don't think those are the only two options. Another option is that it's made illegal, and there are no good alternatives, so "unofficial" sources for loans are found. These can range from family members to Mafias.
    - lotsofmangos 12y ago
      Currently the mafia could advertise as being cheaper than Wonga.
      - jacquesm 12y ago
        Cheaper maybe but their repo men leave a lot to be desired.
        lotsofmangos 12y ago
        It is often exactly the same people, just with a different hat and script.
        davidw 12y ago
        It's probably cheaper to get a loan from the Mafia in some ways because they have different ways of recovering money from those who don't pay their debts, and more incentives at their disposition than legal companies do.
        electromagnetic 12y ago
        I don't think this works in socialist countries. "Pay up or I'll break your legs!" "Okay, you won't get your money, I get my legs fixed for free and I get disability and unemployment."
        jacquesm 12y ago
        Not everything is reversible.
        krapp 12y ago
        Having your bones broken still hurts, even if you're a socialist. Also "that disability check you'll be getting will do quite nicely as down payment if you don't want your (parent|siblings|significant other) mailed to you in pieces."
- dspillett 12y ago
  The problem is finding the balance. They will suffer without the fresh loan, but they'll suffer more if they can't cope with the fresh loan and end up in an even bigger trap with more predatory types after them. And some companies, going by certain leaked memos that have been circulating, are designed to be evil and extract as much as possible without any pretence of trying to help their customers.
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  When the economy tanks, the government is one of the very few entities that can still borrow cheaply and in quantity. Unfortunately many governments are off flogging austerity to the public while underwriting the banks and keeping interest rates near zero. So the banks can't be bothered lending and the lender of last resort becomes the payday loans companies. Meanwhile traditional banking is busy investing in the payday loans rather than directly lending itself as bank loans follow interest rates. The USA is actually doing comparatively well in all this as it never took the austerity thing to heart as much as the Eurozone, where Germany is currently worrying about a triple-dip. edit - as far as I can tell, the reason that the interest rates have been kept so low, at least for here in the UK, is because the house price bubble must be defended at all costs. There is a large portion of the UK economy that will scream blue-murder if they stop getting massive year on year returns on simple ownership of housing and the Bank of England doesn't like pissing them off, which is going to be Mike Carney's job when he finally raises interest rates, shortly before jumping ship as the official scapegoat of the UK house price crash. Obviously this is a massive guess, but it looks somewhat likely.
  - electromagnetic 12y ago
    Mark Carney is the reason Canada basically bypassed this recession. It was so minor hear it was barely noticed, the biggest impact was the stall in new house construction. However our banks thrived, they profited by offering loans to major banks down in the US. House prices are on the up and up. Me and my wife bought just before they tightened up mortgage regulations here, since then house prices in our area have been going up by about 13% per year as banks were no longer issuing mortgages for Toronto house prices ($500k and up) as the down payment required doubled and they increased the threshold on the default insurance (you need about 15% down to get the same rate you used to at 5% down). However, the banks were being so risk averse in the recession I couldn't even get approved for a $500 credit card. I'm from the UK, so with no credit history I was an untouchable. A couple years earlier my wife with essentially negative income as a student had been handed cards left, right and centre.

patio11 12y ago

Google makes, quite literally, billions of dollars off the bottom of the barrel. There is a dark iceberg under the consumer Internet. Online pharmacies. Rebill scams. "Government grant" applications. High interest loans. Educational institutions of dubious utility (disclaimer: took one's shilling once, indirectly, and regret it a bit). Spam, scams, and the like, on a massive scale. There is a UI for AdSense publishers where some Google PM made the decision "If we give them options to tart up their website less, let's tell them how much money it costs." http://www.seobook.com/how-make-easy-money-google http://www.seobook.com/how-make-easy-money-google

threejay 12y ago
At least re: online pharmacy, that's patently false. Coming from someone who currently runs a legitimate online pharmacy, there is a 9-12 month accreditation process (VIPPS) that adwords, etc requires before letting you advertise.
- ktsmith 12y ago
  Sure, after years of essentially no regulation and Google paying a massive fine.
- patio11 12y ago
  That's presumably because Google doesn't want to be fined another $500 million for having their AdWords sales reps give their pharmacy customers advice on how to avoid Google's pharmacy compliance rules. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/google-reaches-500-million-settlement-with-government/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0 http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/08/24/google-reaches-500-...
  - otakucode 12y ago
    That would depend on whether Google is ever actually expected to PAY $500 million and whether they earned more than $500 million by breaking the law to begin with. If they made $501 million off of it, all the government has done is guarantee that is the new standard for business conduct. And usually companies that get hit with $500 million fines get that reduced to $100k or so on appeal.

GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago

Didn't you get the memo? They're allowed to be evil now.