11 ms·

Living in South Brooklyn, maybe 10% of my interactions with police have been pleasant. FFS, me and my boss got pulled over by undercover police just last month

by Apofis 12y ago

Living in South Brooklyn, maybe 10% of my interactions with police have been pleasant. FFS, me and my boss got pulled over by undercover police just last month on a bullshit pretense that we didn't signal the turn, which he did 100%. He was wearing a suit and I was dressed casual. We were pulled out of the car, his car was searched without consent and I was searched without consent. I got into an argument with the cop because they violated our rights and the Sergeant kept on going on and on about how an unsignaled left turn is probable cause. Fuck that shit, we weren't doing anything wrong and are far from looking like drug dealers or gang bangers. What were we doing before the stop? Boss stopped by a bank, then we got in the car, stopped a few blocks away at a cell phone store where I bought something, I got back in the car and we got pulled over on the first turn. I for one can't wait for police to have body cameras, because then it stops being your word against the cops. And that changes everything, it gives leeway for people that want to fight these kind of daily infringements on our rights.

apaprocki 12y ago
I once was driving down Nostrand Ave and there were two unmarked cars stopped side-by-side blocking both lanes in the middle of the street. I slowed, stopped, sat there for 5 seconds waiting and then leaned on the horn. The car in the outer lane went and I continued forward. He then ran up behind me and turned on lights. He immediately came over annoyed that I had the nerve to honk at him and told me he was writing me a ticket because my passenger wasn't wearing her seat belt (she was -- he didn't even look in the car). I was able to diffuse the situation but it is tiny little abuses of power like this that lead to bigger ones.
- Apofis 12y ago
  And that's exactly what I'm talking about, this kind of bullshit would stop if they had body cameras. Plainclothes detectives in NYC are even worse than regular cops, they're arrogant dickheads that think they're above the law.
kansface 12y ago
Arguing with a police officer is a surefire way to get arrested. Assert your rights in court, not on the street.
- hndamien 12y ago
  Sometimes the need to be asserted on the street in order for them to be violated and hold up in court.
- stephencanon 12y ago
  Never [politely] arguing with police officers is a surefire way to reinforce their belief that they can get away with anything. I wish more people had that courage, but I understand why most people don't most of the time.
- coldtea 12y ago
  It's not like it's much better in court. In court it's often your word against theirs (and they have much more sympathy from the judges, prosecutors etc, because, essentially, they are working all together). Plus, this notion leads to a servant mindset. Why should "arguing with a police officer" be a "surefire way to get arrested" (and worse, tasered, beaten up, etc). Arguing should be totally normal and accepted -- and it is that way in most western countries -- cops don't just bark orders and except mindless obedience "or else". Of course I'm talking about plain arguing (as in talking, proposing arguments, etc, related to what they tell you). Not swearing, or fighting them (which could justifiable get you arrested). Heck, even the "don't try to get out of the car when you are stopped by a traffic cop or you'll get shot" is a complete BS, that only happens in the US. No cop in Germany, Sweden, Holland, Britain, Italy etc would even think to shot you for getting out of your car to check why you were stopped. That's what they do at bank robbers in hot pursuit, not traffic offenders...
  - rayiner 12y ago
    > Germany, Sweden, Holland, Britain, Italy etc would even think to shot you for getting out of your car to check why you were stopped. Neither would most cops in the U.S. The cops in my town (Wilmington, DE) might, but then again the murder rate here is 30-40 times higher than in Munich and above that of such safe places as Kingston, Jamaica.
iandanforth 12y ago
Many police cars have dash cams that would have captured the signal. Were you able to press the issue and get a copy of that recording?
- DannyBee 12y ago
  Dash cams are historically "broken" and footage goes "missing". I expect the same to happen here.
  - mattm 12y ago
    Friend in high school got pulled over with me in the car for speeding. The officer said he was doing 79km/hr in a 50 zone. (He was going a little fast but not that fast). My friend, having been pulled over before, asked to see the radar gun reading and the cop told him "I deleted it." Fortunately, my friend contested it in court and won because the police are supposed to show you the evidence if you ask for it.
    - XorNot 12y ago
      This is where body cams change things - the police can lose footage all they want. The fact they did will be hugely prejudicial to court case outcomes. It means good cops get the results, and to boot some immunity to complaints from people just looking to avoid a legitimate ticket. Its a net gain for everyone.
      - Cthulhu_ 12y ago
        Yeah this - unless an officer can prove he was right by showing the camera footage, unfair cases can go right out the window. A lot of evidence in smaller cases (like speeding tickets) are based on 'because the officer saw it', which IMO is no longer valid - since a lot of police officers are falsely handing out tickets and whatnot.
    - johnlong 12y ago
      "He was going a little fast but not that fast" Ok, so he was only a "little" bit selfishly endangering everyone else on the road. Your friend is an asshole, and the cop is doing me a favour by doing whatever he can to your friend. Good on him.
ejr 12y ago
It's common practice to have dash cameras in many "police abuse" and fraud prone areas Ex: Russia. It may be time for us all to invest in similar technology.
- oh_sigh 12y ago
  You don't know what you're talking about. The dash cams in Russia are there for fraud alone, not police abuse. How many dash cam videos have you seen of Russian cops asking for bribes? Not that many I bet. How many have you seen of someone trying to pull off an insurance scam? More than a few. It isn't because police aren't asking for bribes - it's because people are probably afraid to publicize the bad things the police do, whereas they are okay publicizing the bad things a random poor scammer/druggie does.
  - ejr 12y ago
    Since I've never been to Russia, I have to base my information on those who presumably do know what they're talking about. http://www.businessinsider.com/why-russian-drivers-have-dash-cams-2012-12 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-russian-drivers-have-dash... In a post on Animal, Russian ex-pat and journalist Marina Galperina offers a few reasons, which boil down to dangerous driving conditions and the unreliability of Russian traffic police. http://www.wired.com/2013/02/russian-dash-cams/ http://www.wired.com/2013/02/russian-dash-cams/ The sheer size of the country, combined with lax — and often corrupt — law enforcement, and a legal system that rarely favors first-hand accounts of traffic collisions has made dash cams all but a requirement for motorists. http://mashable.com/2013/02/15/why-russians-have-dash-cams-caught-meteor/ http://mashable.com/2013/02/15/why-russians-have-dash-cams-c... The Russian Highway Patrol is known throughout their land for brutality, corruption, extortion and making an income on bribes. Dash-cams won’t protect you from being extorted for cash, because your ass shouldn’t have been speeding. It will however keep you safer from drunks in uniform, false accusations and unreasonable bribe hikes http://www.rferl.org/content/dash-cams-russia-fighting-corruption-and-scams-car-crashes/24780355.html http://www.rferl.org/content/dash-cams-russia-fighting-corru... Motorists use these dash cams as a tool to help fight their corner against Russia's notoriously corrupt traffic police as well as against scammers trying to extort money out of drivers. And. Dozorov recounts one incident involving an inspector, which occurred months ago when police officers stopped his car. "He'd accused me of going through a red light," Dozorov says. "It was enough for me to say: 'I'm not going to argue. Let's have a look at the dash cam.' At that point the inspector said he’d probably made a mistake. He didn't even bother looking. He said sorry and left."
Cthulhu_ 12y ago
To be honest, I'm sure that in those cases the camera view would be 'obscured' for a moment so that in a court case it cannot be proved that your boss did indeed use his turn signal.
- hessenwolf 12y ago
  Yes, but innocent until proven guilty and all that.
- EGreg 12y ago
  Too many of these and a pattern emergees for that officer
- talmand 12y ago
  The way to handle that is to stop automatically giving the police officer's statements more weight than the accused. If there was a camera present at the scene and for whatever reason there's no footage to back up the officer's statement, then there should be dismissal due to lack of evidence.
- lips 12y ago
  As a Brooklynite who has been written up for an open-container which was in fact a cup of coffee[0], this is also my first thought. But.. the stats in Rialto are encouraging. It seems as though the presence of the camera has a general effect beyond its use as reference material.[1] [0] I threw it in a trash can on the corner, officer pulled up 10 feet later, said it was beer, found a beer can in the trash.. Refused to look at the bodega security footage from the place 5 blocks up where I had just bought it) [1] http://online.wsj.com/articles/what-happens-when-police-officers-wear-body-cameras-1408320244 http://online.wsj.com/articles/what-happens-when-police-offi...
merrua 12y ago
That does suggest that you think, that the video camera evidence won't be tampered with. Coming from a country with no confidence in our police force, I would not have that confidence.
- andrey-p 12y ago
  For a minor misuse of police power it'll likely be more effort than it's worth. They'd not only need to get rid of the offending footage, but also explain the absence of footage from that time (or replace it with something else).

by Apofis 12y ago

apaprocki 12y ago

I once was driving down Nostrand Ave and there were two unmarked cars stopped side-by-side blocking both lanes in the middle of the street. I slowed, stopped, sat there for 5 seconds waiting and then leaned on the horn. The car in the outer lane went and I continued forward. He then ran up behind me and turned on lights. He immediately came over annoyed that I had the nerve to honk at him and told me he was writing me a ticket because my passenger wasn't wearing her seat belt (she was -- he didn't even look in the car). I was able to diffuse the situation but it is tiny little abuses of power like this that lead to bigger ones.

Apofis 12y ago
And that's exactly what I'm talking about, this kind of bullshit would stop if they had body cameras. Plainclothes detectives in NYC are even worse than regular cops, they're arrogant dickheads that think they're above the law.

kansface 12y ago

Arguing with a police officer is a surefire way to get arrested. Assert your rights in court, not on the street.

hndamien 12y ago
Sometimes the need to be asserted on the street in order for them to be violated and hold up in court.
stephencanon 12y ago
Never [politely] arguing with police officers is a surefire way to reinforce their belief that they can get away with anything. I wish more people had that courage, but I understand why most people don't most of the time.
coldtea 12y ago
It's not like it's much better in court. In court it's often your word against theirs (and they have much more sympathy from the judges, prosecutors etc, because, essentially, they are working all together). Plus, this notion leads to a servant mindset. Why should "arguing with a police officer" be a "surefire way to get arrested" (and worse, tasered, beaten up, etc). Arguing should be totally normal and accepted -- and it is that way in most western countries -- cops don't just bark orders and except mindless obedience "or else". Of course I'm talking about plain arguing (as in talking, proposing arguments, etc, related to what they tell you). Not swearing, or fighting them (which could justifiable get you arrested). Heck, even the "don't try to get out of the car when you are stopped by a traffic cop or you'll get shot" is a complete BS, that only happens in the US. No cop in Germany, Sweden, Holland, Britain, Italy etc would even think to shot you for getting out of your car to check why you were stopped. That's what they do at bank robbers in hot pursuit, not traffic offenders...
- rayiner 12y ago
  > Germany, Sweden, Holland, Britain, Italy etc would even think to shot you for getting out of your car to check why you were stopped. Neither would most cops in the U.S. The cops in my town (Wilmington, DE) might, but then again the murder rate here is 30-40 times higher than in Munich and above that of such safe places as Kingston, Jamaica.

iandanforth 12y ago

Many police cars have dash cams that would have captured the signal. Were you able to press the issue and get a copy of that recording?

DannyBee 12y ago
Dash cams are historically "broken" and footage goes "missing". I expect the same to happen here.
- mattm 12y ago
  Friend in high school got pulled over with me in the car for speeding. The officer said he was doing 79km/hr in a 50 zone. (He was going a little fast but not that fast). My friend, having been pulled over before, asked to see the radar gun reading and the cop told him "I deleted it." Fortunately, my friend contested it in court and won because the police are supposed to show you the evidence if you ask for it.
  - XorNot 12y ago
    This is where body cams change things - the police can lose footage all they want. The fact they did will be hugely prejudicial to court case outcomes. It means good cops get the results, and to boot some immunity to complaints from people just looking to avoid a legitimate ticket. Its a net gain for everyone.
    - Cthulhu_ 12y ago
      Yeah this - unless an officer can prove he was right by showing the camera footage, unfair cases can go right out the window. A lot of evidence in smaller cases (like speeding tickets) are based on 'because the officer saw it', which IMO is no longer valid - since a lot of police officers are falsely handing out tickets and whatnot.
  - johnlong 12y ago
    "He was going a little fast but not that fast" Ok, so he was only a "little" bit selfishly endangering everyone else on the road. Your friend is an asshole, and the cop is doing me a favour by doing whatever he can to your friend. Good on him.

ejr 12y ago

It's common practice to have dash cameras in many "police abuse" and fraud prone areas Ex: Russia. It may be time for us all to invest in similar technology.

oh_sigh 12y ago
You don't know what you're talking about. The dash cams in Russia are there for fraud alone, not police abuse. How many dash cam videos have you seen of Russian cops asking for bribes? Not that many I bet. How many have you seen of someone trying to pull off an insurance scam? More than a few. It isn't because police aren't asking for bribes - it's because people are probably afraid to publicize the bad things the police do, whereas they are okay publicizing the bad things a random poor scammer/druggie does.
- ejr 12y ago
  Since I've never been to Russia, I have to base my information on those who presumably do know what they're talking about. http://www.businessinsider.com/why-russian-drivers-have-dash-cams-2012-12 http://www.businessinsider.com/why-russian-drivers-have-dash... In a post on Animal, Russian ex-pat and journalist Marina Galperina offers a few reasons, which boil down to dangerous driving conditions and the unreliability of Russian traffic police. http://www.wired.com/2013/02/russian-dash-cams/ http://www.wired.com/2013/02/russian-dash-cams/ The sheer size of the country, combined with lax — and often corrupt — law enforcement, and a legal system that rarely favors first-hand accounts of traffic collisions has made dash cams all but a requirement for motorists. http://mashable.com/2013/02/15/why-russians-have-dash-cams-caught-meteor/ http://mashable.com/2013/02/15/why-russians-have-dash-cams-c... The Russian Highway Patrol is known throughout their land for brutality, corruption, extortion and making an income on bribes. Dash-cams won’t protect you from being extorted for cash, because your ass shouldn’t have been speeding. It will however keep you safer from drunks in uniform, false accusations and unreasonable bribe hikes http://www.rferl.org/content/dash-cams-russia-fighting-corruption-and-scams-car-crashes/24780355.html http://www.rferl.org/content/dash-cams-russia-fighting-corru... Motorists use these dash cams as a tool to help fight their corner against Russia's notoriously corrupt traffic police as well as against scammers trying to extort money out of drivers. And. Dozorov recounts one incident involving an inspector, which occurred months ago when police officers stopped his car. "He'd accused me of going through a red light," Dozorov says. "It was enough for me to say: 'I'm not going to argue. Let's have a look at the dash cam.' At that point the inspector said he’d probably made a mistake. He didn't even bother looking. He said sorry and left."

Cthulhu_ 12y ago

To be honest, I'm sure that in those cases the camera view would be 'obscured' for a moment so that in a court case it cannot be proved that your boss did indeed use his turn signal.

hessenwolf 12y ago
Yes, but innocent until proven guilty and all that.
EGreg 12y ago
Too many of these and a pattern emergees for that officer
talmand 12y ago
The way to handle that is to stop automatically giving the police officer's statements more weight than the accused. If there was a camera present at the scene and for whatever reason there's no footage to back up the officer's statement, then there should be dismissal due to lack of evidence.
lips 12y ago
As a Brooklynite who has been written up for an open-container which was in fact a cup of coffee[0], this is also my first thought. But.. the stats in Rialto are encouraging. It seems as though the presence of the camera has a general effect beyond its use as reference material.[1] [0] I threw it in a trash can on the corner, officer pulled up 10 feet later, said it was beer, found a beer can in the trash.. Refused to look at the bodega security footage from the place 5 blocks up where I had just bought it) [1] http://online.wsj.com/articles/what-happens-when-police-officers-wear-body-cameras-1408320244 http://online.wsj.com/articles/what-happens-when-police-offi...

merrua 12y ago

That does suggest that you think, that the video camera evidence won't be tampered with. Coming from a country with no confidence in our police force, I would not have that confidence.

andrey-p 12y ago
For a minor misuse of police power it'll likely be more effort than it's worth. They'd not only need to get rid of the offending footage, but also explain the absence of footage from that time (or replace it with something else).