5 ms·

Ha. The problem in such places isn't transportation regulation, it's basic rule of law. Kidnapping is already against the law, as is charging more for a service

by natrius 12y ago

Ha. The problem in such places isn't transportation regulation, it's basic rule of law. Kidnapping is already against the law, as is charging more for a service than you advertise.

bane 12y ago
But in places with regulated taxi service, you won't generally be getting into the back of a random car claiming it's a taxi either. All the taxi livery, car #, driver info, etc. in a regulated taxi industry is polite-speak for "won't kidnap you can sell your body parts off to the highest bidder" and this is ensured because somebody(s) will get in trouble for doing this. It doesn't appear to be a problem with Uber or Lyft since they have some kind of QC, but what happens when the market is deregulated for anybody to open up whatever kind of taxi service they want? It's the next next guys that worry me. Random cars pulling up to people hailing taxis and offering a ride is basically the kind of stuff we were all taught to avoid as children because you shouldn't talk to strangers.
- Nacraile 12y ago
  All of that livery, car #, driver info, etc is security theatre. So are background checks. If you get in a taxi with serious malicious intent, you're in trouble, full stop. Whatever limited protection they do yield is basically redundant with the license plate number. You're confusing correlation with causation in declaring that unregulated taxi service leads to dangerous taxi service.
  - vacri 12y ago
    Laws against murder and rape are security theatre. If you are approached by a murderer or rapist with serious malicious intent, you're in trouble, full stop. This kind of argument is silly, that the mere simple existence of criminality is more important than the frequency of it.
  - bane 12y ago
    Well everything is security theater then. We can always come up with some absurd scenario where no amount of safety precautions will keep you safe. The difference with a regulated service is that if you do disappear into some warehouse somewhere to be sold off for parts. There's at least a chance somebody in dispatch, or your relatives, or a witness can provide a lead. Jump in a random beater and you're gone forever. So I guess go on being proud of assuming idiotic risks the next time you hop in a beat up Toyota Tercel in Mexico City or wherever because some random guy offers to give you ride for cheap. You don't really need both of your kidneys. I won't argue statistics with you, but the incidents of people disappearing into some Central American jungle are far higher when morons on holiday jump in the back of unmarked "taxis" vs. taking a regulated service. I mean, it was only the #2 method for the FARC to finance their operations for a few decades, and they weren't doing it with vehicles from the regulated taxi system. Which is one of the reasons it was so hard to put a stop to. But we'll just discount that. When James Watson was killed in Bogota, you know what brilliant method was used to track down the perpetrators? Video showing the livery on the cab he took. But no, go on. Prove me wrong. Please. Go ahead. You show me. Run with those scissors. Play with that fire. Drink that sewer water. Spin that revolver barrel. There's absolutely no reason the state department issues explicit guidelines on taxi usage for certain countries, and those guidelines are almost always "use a taxi from a well regulated taxi service" It's all just theater.
    - aianus 12y ago
      That has nothing to do with taxi regulations and everything to do with a complete lack of law and order in the countries you mentioned. Even if it's just 1% easier to kidnap a foreigner because they got into the wrong taxi than just to point a gun at them and grab them off the street, you're going to see it become the dominant form of kidnapping. Doesn't mean taxi regulations would do anything to solve it.
      - bane 12y ago
        And yet, kidnappings rapes and murders from well regulated taxis in those countries occur at a much lower rate than in unregulated taxis. Why do you suppose that is? Random happenstance?
- icebraining 12y ago
  Go ask the victims of Gurmeet Singh, Eric Chung, etc how ensured they feel. If the driver isn't deterred by a criminal conviction with years of prison, losing the taxi license certainly won't work either.
  - bane 12y ago
    The difference is that because these guys were part of a regulated system. It made tracking them down much easier. Yeah shit happens and it sucks. But it's at least there's some kind of formal thread of responsibility. How was Singh caught? He was asked to come to the Taxi and Limo Commission. Chung was caught because the victim called 911 who tracked him through his dispatch records. The livery and identification of their jobs significantly narrowed down the search from "person with car" to "cab #xxxx". I bet if you hunt down crime statistics on kidnappings etc. on regulated taxis vs. unregulated taxis the percentage of global incidents on unregulated taxis will far outstrip those of regulated systems. Here's the security guidelines for taxis in Mexico https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=15151 https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=151... ""Libre" taxi cabs are poorly regulated and often criminally-linked enterprises, which pick up fares on the street after being hailed by customers. "Sitio" or radio dispatched base station taxis are far safer, more reliable, and are worth the added expense. "Sitio" or radio dispatched base station taxis cannot be hailed off the street and must be ordered by phone or met at a designated taxi stand. Twenty-four hour radio taxi service is available at 5516-6020 and 3626-9800 to 30. “Sitio” taxis in Mexico City are most often metered and registered by the government. “Sitio” taxis from Benito Juarez International Airport are paid in advance in the terminal (at the “Sitio” stands) and are well regulated. For Kenya http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/alertswarnings/kenya-travel-warning.html http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/alertswarn... "U.S. citizens should use commonsense precautions at all times, to include the following practices: avoid crowded transportation venues; visit only legitimate businesses and tourist areas only during daylight hours; use well-marked taxis and be sure to lock vehicle doors and keep windows up..." Ecuador http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/ecuador.html http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/ec... "When in Ecuador, you should call to order a taxi by phone or use a service affiliated with major hotels. If you must hail a taxi on the street, seek out those that are officially registered and in good condition." Brazil https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=15094 https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=150... "Avoid city buses and other public transportation. Taxis and private vehicles should be used when moving within the city of São Paulo. Only use taxis at taxi stands, or have your hotel call one for you directly." Here's general advice for expats http://www.expatify.com/south-america/how-to-avoid-an-express-kidnapping.html http://www.expatify.com/south-america/how-to-avoid-an-expres... "Avoid illegal taxis...sometimes the car has irregular markings. The best bet is to use one of the recommended taxi companies." Here's the Catholic Church's official guidance http://www.pilotbulletins.net/weeklymailing/RiskMgmt_KidnappingRansomPreventionGuidelines.pdf http://www.pilotbulletins.net/weeklymailing/RiskMgmt_Kidnapp... "Taxis - Only take taxis clearly identified with official markings. Beware of unmarked cabs. Never accept an offer to share a taxi with strangers." There's very good reasons why these guidelines are the way they are. What do you suppose those reasons are?
- jacquesm 12y ago
  In Colombia that wasn't any guarantee when I was there, not sure how it is today but you were very strongly advised to never hail a cab, always call them in advance and get the taxi id from the dispatcher.

by natrius 12y ago

Ha. The problem in such places isn't transportation regulation, it's basic rule of law. Kidnapping is already against the law, as is charging more for a service than you advertise.

bane 12y ago

But in places with regulated taxi service, you won't generally be getting into the back of a random car claiming it's a taxi either. All the taxi livery, car #, driver info, etc. in a regulated taxi industry is polite-speak for "won't kidnap you can sell your body parts off to the highest bidder" and this is ensured because somebody(s) will get in trouble for doing this. It doesn't appear to be a problem with Uber or Lyft since they have some kind of QC, but what happens when the market is deregulated for anybody to open up whatever kind of taxi service they want? It's the next next guys that worry me. Random cars pulling up to people hailing taxis and offering a ride is basically the kind of stuff we were all taught to avoid as children because you shouldn't talk to strangers.

Nacraile 12y ago
All of that livery, car #, driver info, etc is security theatre. So are background checks. If you get in a taxi with serious malicious intent, you're in trouble, full stop. Whatever limited protection they do yield is basically redundant with the license plate number. You're confusing correlation with causation in declaring that unregulated taxi service leads to dangerous taxi service.
- vacri 12y ago
  Laws against murder and rape are security theatre. If you are approached by a murderer or rapist with serious malicious intent, you're in trouble, full stop. This kind of argument is silly, that the mere simple existence of criminality is more important than the frequency of it.
- bane 12y ago
  Well everything is security theater then. We can always come up with some absurd scenario where no amount of safety precautions will keep you safe. The difference with a regulated service is that if you do disappear into some warehouse somewhere to be sold off for parts. There's at least a chance somebody in dispatch, or your relatives, or a witness can provide a lead. Jump in a random beater and you're gone forever. So I guess go on being proud of assuming idiotic risks the next time you hop in a beat up Toyota Tercel in Mexico City or wherever because some random guy offers to give you ride for cheap. You don't really need both of your kidneys. I won't argue statistics with you, but the incidents of people disappearing into some Central American jungle are far higher when morons on holiday jump in the back of unmarked "taxis" vs. taking a regulated service. I mean, it was only the #2 method for the FARC to finance their operations for a few decades, and they weren't doing it with vehicles from the regulated taxi system. Which is one of the reasons it was so hard to put a stop to. But we'll just discount that. When James Watson was killed in Bogota, you know what brilliant method was used to track down the perpetrators? Video showing the livery on the cab he took. But no, go on. Prove me wrong. Please. Go ahead. You show me. Run with those scissors. Play with that fire. Drink that sewer water. Spin that revolver barrel. There's absolutely no reason the state department issues explicit guidelines on taxi usage for certain countries, and those guidelines are almost always "use a taxi from a well regulated taxi service" It's all just theater.
  - aianus 12y ago
    That has nothing to do with taxi regulations and everything to do with a complete lack of law and order in the countries you mentioned. Even if it's just 1% easier to kidnap a foreigner because they got into the wrong taxi than just to point a gun at them and grab them off the street, you're going to see it become the dominant form of kidnapping. Doesn't mean taxi regulations would do anything to solve it.
    - bane 12y ago
      And yet, kidnappings rapes and murders from well regulated taxis in those countries occur at a much lower rate than in unregulated taxis. Why do you suppose that is? Random happenstance?
icebraining 12y ago
Go ask the victims of Gurmeet Singh, Eric Chung, etc how ensured they feel. If the driver isn't deterred by a criminal conviction with years of prison, losing the taxi license certainly won't work either.
- bane 12y ago
  The difference is that because these guys were part of a regulated system. It made tracking them down much easier. Yeah shit happens and it sucks. But it's at least there's some kind of formal thread of responsibility. How was Singh caught? He was asked to come to the Taxi and Limo Commission. Chung was caught because the victim called 911 who tracked him through his dispatch records. The livery and identification of their jobs significantly narrowed down the search from "person with car" to "cab #xxxx". I bet if you hunt down crime statistics on kidnappings etc. on regulated taxis vs. unregulated taxis the percentage of global incidents on unregulated taxis will far outstrip those of regulated systems. Here's the security guidelines for taxis in Mexico https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=15151 https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=151... ""Libre" taxi cabs are poorly regulated and often criminally-linked enterprises, which pick up fares on the street after being hailed by customers. "Sitio" or radio dispatched base station taxis are far safer, more reliable, and are worth the added expense. "Sitio" or radio dispatched base station taxis cannot be hailed off the street and must be ordered by phone or met at a designated taxi stand. Twenty-four hour radio taxi service is available at 5516-6020 and 3626-9800 to 30. “Sitio” taxis in Mexico City are most often metered and registered by the government. “Sitio” taxis from Benito Juarez International Airport are paid in advance in the terminal (at the “Sitio” stands) and are well regulated. For Kenya http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/alertswarnings/kenya-travel-warning.html http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/alertswarn... "U.S. citizens should use commonsense precautions at all times, to include the following practices: avoid crowded transportation venues; visit only legitimate businesses and tourist areas only during daylight hours; use well-marked taxis and be sure to lock vehicle doors and keep windows up..." Ecuador http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/ecuador.html http://travel.state.gov/content/passports/english/country/ec... "When in Ecuador, you should call to order a taxi by phone or use a service affiliated with major hotels. If you must hail a taxi on the street, seek out those that are officially registered and in good condition." Brazil https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=15094 https://www.osac.gov/pages/ContentReportDetails.aspx?cid=150... "Avoid city buses and other public transportation. Taxis and private vehicles should be used when moving within the city of São Paulo. Only use taxis at taxi stands, or have your hotel call one for you directly." Here's general advice for expats http://www.expatify.com/south-america/how-to-avoid-an-express-kidnapping.html http://www.expatify.com/south-america/how-to-avoid-an-expres... "Avoid illegal taxis...sometimes the car has irregular markings. The best bet is to use one of the recommended taxi companies." Here's the Catholic Church's official guidance http://www.pilotbulletins.net/weeklymailing/RiskMgmt_KidnappingRansomPreventionGuidelines.pdf http://www.pilotbulletins.net/weeklymailing/RiskMgmt_Kidnapp... "Taxis - Only take taxis clearly identified with official markings. Beware of unmarked cabs. Never accept an offer to share a taxi with strangers." There's very good reasons why these guidelines are the way they are. What do you suppose those reasons are?
jacquesm 12y ago
In Colombia that wasn't any guarantee when I was there, not sure how it is today but you were very strongly advised to never hail a cab, always call them in advance and get the taxi id from the dispatcher.