7 ms·

Two lessons: 1. Don't base your entire business on another business' product. Especially one that has had such a hostile relationship with third parties. Whe

by pionar 12y ago

Two lessons: 1. Don't base your entire business on another business' product. Especially one that has had such a hostile relationship with third parties. When the other business decides to discontinue your access to its service, or otherwise change things, or basically copy what you do under their own brand, you're screwed. 2. Don't create a similar name that will give you trouble in trademark disputes. (Seriously? TwitPic? I work in technology, and even I thought they were owned by Twitter, though admittedly, I don't use Twitter much and don't use TwitPic at all).

brianbreslin 12y ago
When they launched I remember thinking they were naming themselves that way for 2 reasons: 1. cause user confusion like you suggested, 2. try to flip to twitter itself.
- numlocked 12y ago
  I believe Twitpic was a 'weekend project' that Noah put together, that grew into a successful business. AFAIK there was not this level of intentionality behind it in the early days. I suspect twitpic was just the most obvious catchy name that came to mind.
kordless 12y ago
A business product that encourages data isolation, control and non-transparency is not a product anyone should ever want to use.
ihuman 12y ago
I don't think those lessons apply well to this TwitPic scenario, since they have been breaking them for 5 years without any problem.
- pionar 12y ago
  Yeah, they do. It's hasn't been 5 years without any problem, it's was 2 years without any problem, and 3 years of being slowly strangled by Twitter. Plus, if the definition of success is "last 5 years", then that's not a very lofty goal.
- incongruity 12y ago
  Inasmuch as it came to a sudden, screeching halt even after five years highlights the value of those lessons even more so, IMHO. Five years is long enough to get (falsely) comfortable and that's when ignoring those lessons really gets dangerous for a business.
- squeaky-clean 12y ago
  Isn't that worse? 5 years of effort, all gone. I'd much rather have a project of mine shut down after a week then to go half a decade before it is shut down for reasons beyond my control.
mseebach 12y ago
1 should rather be "don't build your business on being an obvious missing feature from another product, especially such that if the product implements that feature, they make you irrelevant overnight" with 1a: "if you do, understand that your business' potential exists entirely in the short term".
- Cabal 12y ago
  It worked out fairly well for Rapportive: http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/07/linkedin-picks-up-rapportive-for-around-15-million/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/07/linkedin-picks-up-rapportiv...
daigoba66 12y ago
> Don't base your entire business on another business' product. That is a terrible generalization. That pretty much covers every ISV ever. And large companies like Microsoft, Google, and Apple all have a history of "Embrace, extend, and extinguish" when it comes to closing out 3rd parties. However I think your point is valid for companies like Twitter, and to a slightly lesser extent Facebook. These companies don't have a vested interest in 3rd parties building on their platforms.
- robert_tweed 12y ago
  Indeed, the obvious counter-example to that lesson is imgur.
  - danudey 12y ago
    imgur is a good service even without Reddit, though (and I often use it just to send nice, short, copyable image links to people). TwitPic without Twitter is almost worthless, like a worse imgur. Its single defining characteristic was 'put pictures on twitter automatically!' but as soon as Twitter supported posting photos directly their entire business model was gone. Honestly I'm surprised they've lasted this long; they had no differentiating factor other than being new, and they had no real features that anyone cared about. I haven't even seen a twitpic link in years, let alone clicked on one.
  - billmalarky 12y ago
    Imgur has taken clear steps to hedge itself from its dependency on reddit though.
    - valarauca1 12y ago
      Yet it has not succeeded. Most of users base browses the sites "Viral" gallery. Which is nothing more then a "Reddit's 24 hour greatest hits", a surprisingly low number of images make it into imgur's gallery from imgur itself. TL;DR No reddit, no front page content on imgur.
peterwwillis 12y ago
> Don't base your entire business on another product. Possibly the most naive statement ever made about software business models. > 2. Don't create a similar name that will give you trouble in trademark disputes Often this is not a problem, as once you've gotten your foot in the door you can relinquish the conflicting mark and continue your business. In any case, the trademark didn't really conflict anyway, it was just a legal tactic. The API block was the end goal.
IanDrake 12y ago
I'm not sure why anyone would dispute #1. Perhaps they interpret it too broadly. You can have some success basing a business on another for a while maybe, but unless you have a solid agreement as to how that relationship works, the rug can be pulled out from under you at any moment. And that's usually what happens.
- mahouse 12y ago
  Twitter was very friendly to 3rd party developers. But then the big rich guys came in.
zem 12y ago
i'd go further and say don't waste a second of your precious time and energy developing for someone else's closed platform. the sharecropping metaphor has only gained in relevance since tim bray first proposed it.
larrys 12y ago
"Don't base your entire business on another business' product. " Well another angle to that could be it's ok if you plan on getting out while the going is good by selling to a greater fool. This is one of the detriments in life to knowing to much. You tend to shy away from things (because of past knowledge and experience) that someone with less experience might do. And they might, by luck, make out. For example if you operate in old school business the idea of going forward with an idea not knowing how you will make money simply doesn't make sense. But hey people have done that and they've made out.
abootstrapper 12y ago
1) What if I told you, you could base your entire business on another business' product, get shut down, and still come out ahead? Getting shut down isn't the worst thing to happen, it could even be the "exit strategy." Run the money machine until it's dry.

by pionar 12y ago

brianbreslin 12y ago

When they launched I remember thinking they were naming themselves that way for 2 reasons: 1. cause user confusion like you suggested, 2. try to flip to twitter itself.

numlocked 12y ago
I believe Twitpic was a 'weekend project' that Noah put together, that grew into a successful business. AFAIK there was not this level of intentionality behind it in the early days. I suspect twitpic was just the most obvious catchy name that came to mind.

kordless 12y ago

A business product that encourages data isolation, control and non-transparency is not a product anyone should ever want to use.

ihuman 12y ago

I don't think those lessons apply well to this TwitPic scenario, since they have been breaking them for 5 years without any problem.

pionar 12y ago
Yeah, they do. It's hasn't been 5 years without any problem, it's was 2 years without any problem, and 3 years of being slowly strangled by Twitter. Plus, if the definition of success is "last 5 years", then that's not a very lofty goal.
incongruity 12y ago
Inasmuch as it came to a sudden, screeching halt even after five years highlights the value of those lessons even more so, IMHO. Five years is long enough to get (falsely) comfortable and that's when ignoring those lessons really gets dangerous for a business.
squeaky-clean 12y ago
Isn't that worse? 5 years of effort, all gone. I'd much rather have a project of mine shut down after a week then to go half a decade before it is shut down for reasons beyond my control.

mseebach 12y ago

1 should rather be "don't build your business on being an obvious missing feature from another product, especially such that if the product implements that feature, they make you irrelevant overnight" with 1a: "if you do, understand that your business' potential exists entirely in the short term".

Cabal 12y ago
It worked out fairly well for Rapportive: http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/07/linkedin-picks-up-rapportive-for-around-15-million/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/02/07/linkedin-picks-up-rapportiv...

daigoba66 12y ago

> Don't base your entire business on another business' product. That is a terrible generalization. That pretty much covers every ISV ever. And large companies like Microsoft, Google, and Apple all have a history of "Embrace, extend, and extinguish" when it comes to closing out 3rd parties. However I think your point is valid for companies like Twitter, and to a slightly lesser extent Facebook. These companies don't have a vested interest in 3rd parties building on their platforms.

robert_tweed 12y ago
Indeed, the obvious counter-example to that lesson is imgur.
- danudey 12y ago
  imgur is a good service even without Reddit, though (and I often use it just to send nice, short, copyable image links to people). TwitPic without Twitter is almost worthless, like a worse imgur. Its single defining characteristic was 'put pictures on twitter automatically!' but as soon as Twitter supported posting photos directly their entire business model was gone. Honestly I'm surprised they've lasted this long; they had no differentiating factor other than being new, and they had no real features that anyone cared about. I haven't even seen a twitpic link in years, let alone clicked on one.
- billmalarky 12y ago
  Imgur has taken clear steps to hedge itself from its dependency on reddit though.
  - valarauca1 12y ago
    Yet it has not succeeded. Most of users base browses the sites "Viral" gallery. Which is nothing more then a "Reddit's 24 hour greatest hits", a surprisingly low number of images make it into imgur's gallery from imgur itself. TL;DR No reddit, no front page content on imgur.

peterwwillis 12y ago

> Don't base your entire business on another product. Possibly the most naive statement ever made about software business models. > 2. Don't create a similar name that will give you trouble in trademark disputes Often this is not a problem, as once you've gotten your foot in the door you can relinquish the conflicting mark and continue your business. In any case, the trademark didn't really conflict anyway, it was just a legal tactic. The API block was the end goal.

IanDrake 12y ago

I'm not sure why anyone would dispute #1. Perhaps they interpret it too broadly. You can have some success basing a business on another for a while maybe, but unless you have a solid agreement as to how that relationship works, the rug can be pulled out from under you at any moment. And that's usually what happens.

mahouse 12y ago
Twitter was very friendly to 3rd party developers. But then the big rich guys came in.

zem 12y ago

i'd go further and say don't waste a second of your precious time and energy developing for someone else's closed platform. the sharecropping metaphor has only gained in relevance since tim bray first proposed it.

larrys 12y ago

"Don't base your entire business on another business' product. " Well another angle to that could be it's ok if you plan on getting out while the going is good by selling to a greater fool. This is one of the detriments in life to knowing to much. You tend to shy away from things (because of past knowledge and experience) that someone with less experience might do. And they might, by luck, make out. For example if you operate in old school business the idea of going forward with an idea not knowing how you will make money simply doesn't make sense. But hey people have done that and they've made out.

abootstrapper 12y ago

1) What if I told you, you could base your entire business on another business' product, get shut down, and still come out ahead? Getting shut down isn't the worst thing to happen, it could even be the "exit strategy." Run the money machine until it's dry.