3 ms·

It's usually the smartest ones who get away. Spend 7 years for a chance at tenure? In many fields, spend years in a postdoc for a chance at a tenure-track job

by cpks 12y ago

It's usually the smartest ones who get away. Spend 7 years for a chance at tenure? In many fields, spend years in a postdoc for a chance at a tenure-track job? Not smart. The image that the smartest, most promising ones stay in is just false. Most of the cut-offs in academia are crabshoots. Smart people realize that. The intense competition makes for horrific working conditions, at least until tenure. Smart people realize that as well. Some of the competition is based on ability, but a lot is based on politics. Pick a 'hot' topic. Focus on one field, don't do anything interdisciplinary. Make friends with the people who will write letters. Play department politics. Teach just barely well enough -- to leave enough free time for research. Play the grants game. Etc. None of that is fun. So smart people go elsewhere. One of the first things I learned after getting my Ph.D was to go where you were in demand. I switched from my most desirable field to my second (which was more in-demand, and had a younger, more startup culture), and immediately, the amount of respect, independence, flexibility, and just about everything else went up. Difference was like night-and-day. Always be in a position of leverage.

eli_gottlieb 12y ago
Whenever people complain about society lacking scientists or scientific progress, I think, "Have you tried paying us money and giving us job security?"
- turnip1979 12y ago
  When one thinks about the big picture, it gets ridiculous. I read a stat about how each of the major league sports in the US has more money spent in it by consumers than the research funding for all forms of cancer combined. In an age where there is massive productivity in production, society should be funding the heck out of research. We could probably knock out a major disease every two years!
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
    You're not supposed to suggest that the free market is not solving the right kinds of problems.
- cryoshon 12y ago
  And of course the immediate answer is "no, no we have not tried such a thing, and we will not try such a thing." A significantly improved work-life balance wouldn't hurt, either, but that's a societal problem outside of science too. It's too bad, really. I've recently witnessed a ton of bright people decide to leave science for greener pastures. I'll be joining them soon.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
  They did, but it turned out the wrong kind of people were getting tenure, which is why it's being gutted.
- toufka 12y ago
  A major issue with paying more is the scientists themselves. We tend to be a self-righteous group who insist our vow of poverty actually improves our work. And that by increasing our pay you'll tempt us into distraction. It's a horrible loop. We'll gladly fork over half a million for a new scope, but balk at paying the person to use it an extra $1,000 a year.
  - eli_gottlieb 12y ago
    Who do you know who actually thinks like that?

by cpks 12y ago

eli_gottlieb 12y ago

Whenever people complain about society lacking scientists or scientific progress, I think, "Have you tried paying us money and giving us job security?"

turnip1979 12y ago
When one thinks about the big picture, it gets ridiculous. I read a stat about how each of the major league sports in the US has more money spent in it by consumers than the research funding for all forms of cancer combined. In an age where there is massive productivity in production, society should be funding the heck out of research. We could probably knock out a major disease every two years!
- GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
  You're not supposed to suggest that the free market is not solving the right kinds of problems.
cryoshon 12y ago
And of course the immediate answer is "no, no we have not tried such a thing, and we will not try such a thing." A significantly improved work-life balance wouldn't hurt, either, but that's a societal problem outside of science too. It's too bad, really. I've recently witnessed a ton of bright people decide to leave science for greener pastures. I'll be joining them soon.
GFK_of_xmaspast 12y ago
They did, but it turned out the wrong kind of people were getting tenure, which is why it's being gutted.
toufka 12y ago
A major issue with paying more is the scientists themselves. We tend to be a self-righteous group who insist our vow of poverty actually improves our work. And that by increasing our pay you'll tempt us into distraction. It's a horrible loop. We'll gladly fork over half a million for a new scope, but balk at paying the person to use it an extra $1,000 a year.
- eli_gottlieb 12y ago
  Who do you know who actually thinks like that?