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I hadn't read the stuff about Gruber not wanting them to use the same name before I wrote my comment. But I still don't think it's 'fucked up' in the slightest.

I hadn't read the stuff about Gruber not wanting them to use the same name before I wrote my comment. But I still don't think it's 'fucked up' in the slightest. It actually sounds like Gruber is being irrational and a bit of a dick, from his comments that I've just read. His behaviour seems weirdly lame for someone capable of such good design. If he wanted to, he could have trademarked it, but he chose to give it free to the world and just sort of hoped that it would stay roughly in a shape he would like. Resisting standardisation is a weird thing to do. His notion that ambiguity is a feature is a dumb one. I think this is all relevant to the discussion about whether it's decent/honourable to use a similar name against his wishes. If his wishes are anti-progress, then tough luck, people are going to progress things if they can. He chose not to copyright/trademark anything. He can't have it both ways.

zephtrip 12y ago
He did copyright everything. Explicitly. In a very short license where one third of the conditions of use was: >Neither the name “Markdown” nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission. Gruber is not being irrational. He is operating under a different paradigm, which he explained last time Marco Arment was on his podcast. He is approaching this from the view that the optimal markdown implementation for a code site like GitHub is different to the optimal markdown for a commenting site like Reddit. Standardisation just locks in a suboptimal implementation for everyone. Whether you agree or disagree, it's at least a rational viewpoint. The creator of the project let you do anything with it other than use the name markdown for a derivative product. They went ahead and did that. A completely unreasonable move that is just spiteful.
- callum85 12y ago
  Standardisation doesn't lock it down, it just establishes a central flavour. It doesn't force Github to use the standard. Github can keep using GFM. It still benefits Github and others for there to be a well-defined standard which they can use as a base for defining their own variations against. Documenting your own Markdown flavour will be easier if you can say "It's Standard Markdown, plus/except these features...", instead of "It's part of the soupy world of 'Markdown', but here are the features that some/all other implementations don't have...". > He did copyright everything. Explicitly. I didn't realise that. In that case he can force them to change it if he doesn't like it, right? I don't get why people are talking about honour/decency.
- Nick-Craver 12y ago
  You can't copyright a name, which seems to be his main point of contention judging by the public responses he has offered. This has nothing to do with my view point, it's simply a fact of law: you can't copyright a name. No matter what text you put somewhere says, it doesn't magically apply.

zephtrip 12y ago

He did copyright everything. Explicitly. In a very short license where one third of the conditions of use was: >Neither the name “Markdown” nor the names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived from this software without specific prior written permission. Gruber is not being irrational. He is operating under a different paradigm, which he explained last time Marco Arment was on his podcast. He is approaching this from the view that the optimal markdown implementation for a code site like GitHub is different to the optimal markdown for a commenting site like Reddit. Standardisation just locks in a suboptimal implementation for everyone. Whether you agree or disagree, it's at least a rational viewpoint. The creator of the project let you do anything with it other than use the name markdown for a derivative product. They went ahead and did that. A completely unreasonable move that is just spiteful.

callum85 12y ago
Standardisation doesn't lock it down, it just establishes a central flavour. It doesn't force Github to use the standard. Github can keep using GFM. It still benefits Github and others for there to be a well-defined standard which they can use as a base for defining their own variations against. Documenting your own Markdown flavour will be easier if you can say "It's Standard Markdown, plus/except these features...", instead of "It's part of the soupy world of 'Markdown', but here are the features that some/all other implementations don't have...". > He did copyright everything. Explicitly. I didn't realise that. In that case he can force them to change it if he doesn't like it, right? I don't get why people are talking about honour/decency.
Nick-Craver 12y ago
You can't copyright a name, which seems to be his main point of contention judging by the public responses he has offered. This has nothing to do with my view point, it's simply a fact of law: you can't copyright a name. No matter what text you put somewhere says, it doesn't magically apply.