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Isn't it rather antisocial not to sell for public building? I don't understand why everybody sides with the holdouts. Also I feel sorry for everybody who lives

Isn't it rather antisocial not to sell for public building? I don't understand why everybody sides with the holdouts. Also I feel sorry for everybody who lives next to a highway.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
scuba7183 12y ago
If someone showed up at your house and told you that you had to leave, would you?
- mike-cardwell 12y ago
  Personally, it would depend on why they want me to move. If it's so they can build something of huge public benefit and have sound reasoning for why it needs to go through my house, and I'm compensated suitably, then yes of course I would leave. Doing otherwise would be selfish. But if they don't fulfill all of those requirements, I would probably still move if they increased the compensation offering enough.
  - toyg 12y ago
    Concepts like "huge public benefit" and "sound reasoning" are in the eye of the beholder; and as mentioned above, money isn't everything. Especially for old people, memories can be more of a comfort than cash, and losing your home inevitably means losing some of those memories.
    - mike-cardwell 12y ago
      > Concepts like "huge public benefit" and "sound reasoning" are in the eye of the beholder; Yes. That's why my first word was "Personally" > and as mentioned above, money isn't everything. Yes. That's why I wrote "compensated suitably" and "increased the compensation offering enough". > Especially for old people, memories can be more of a comfort than cash, and losing your home inevitably means losing some of those memories. That seems rather condescending to old people to me.
imgabe 12y ago
Isn't it rather antisocial to pave over someone's home?
- facepalm 12y ago
  Not if you pay them accordingly. Moving is not that big a deal. I am talking about projects for public benefit. Some things have to be built somewhere, after all.
  - toyg 12y ago
    "Not if you pay them accordingly." And so it came to be, that money was the measure of everything. I hate to border on strawman-building, but... what if I told you that you have to renounce your laptop, your telephone number, all your social media accounts, all your pictures, everything you've ever hold dear, right now, "for the good of the community"? Of course I'll pay you "accordingly" (up to a point, i.e. just enough to replace them). Would you take it? For a lot of old people, relinquishing their homes means losing memories and likely being uprooted from the community they belong to, which is what they really care about. They don't care too much about their bank accounts, because they are aware that their time is short and what really matters for them is the connections they can still make, the history they can pass on. That sort of thing doesn't have a price tag.
    - facepalm 12y ago
      Well helping people has a price tag. If they don't care for the money, they could still accept it and donate it to cancer research or food donations for starving children. It still seems selfish... In any case what is the point of the discussion if I say "if they pay accordingly" and you say "but they won't"? Money as a measure for everything - it is just a convenient proxy for talking about the value of things. What is so bad about that? Should these people be paid off in other things? Like what?
      - toyg 12y ago
        The point is that in some cases, there are things that cannot be "paid off", whatever the currency. Not everything can be bought and sold.
onion2k 12y ago
If you work in the construction industry I imagine this is the equivalent of an IE6 user.
hnal943 12y ago
This is why the concept of eminent domain exists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain
- GFischer 12y ago
  Eminent domain is sadly abused in 99% of the cases. I'd rather it didn't exist, but I can see the need in the most extreme examples. See for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_for_Billionaires http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_for_Billionaires Edit: keeping on topic, there was a holdout when building a mall here in Uruguay, and they built the parking lot around his house: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Geant/@-34.8667764,-56.0236043,344m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x959f889d98fcf3cb:0xb5c6af19df94a75e https://www.google.com/maps/place/Geant/@-34.8667764,-56.023... there's a controversy in my country (Uruguay) because the state wants to apply Eminent Domain to a supposed landmark, because a study said 200 years ago it had been a campsite of the national hero: http://www.diarioelpueblo.com.uy/destacados/el-hervidero-una-estancia-ejemplar-en-la-mira-del-estado.html http://www.diarioelpueblo.com.uy/destacados/el-hervidero-una...

Isn't it rather antisocial not to sell for public building? I don't understand why everybody sides with the holdouts. Also I feel sorry for everybody who lives next to a highway.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

scuba7183 12y ago

If someone showed up at your house and told you that you had to leave, would you?

mike-cardwell 12y ago
Personally, it would depend on why they want me to move. If it's so they can build something of huge public benefit and have sound reasoning for why it needs to go through my house, and I'm compensated suitably, then yes of course I would leave. Doing otherwise would be selfish. But if they don't fulfill all of those requirements, I would probably still move if they increased the compensation offering enough.
- toyg 12y ago
  Concepts like "huge public benefit" and "sound reasoning" are in the eye of the beholder; and as mentioned above, money isn't everything. Especially for old people, memories can be more of a comfort than cash, and losing your home inevitably means losing some of those memories.
  - mike-cardwell 12y ago
    > Concepts like "huge public benefit" and "sound reasoning" are in the eye of the beholder; Yes. That's why my first word was "Personally" > and as mentioned above, money isn't everything. Yes. That's why I wrote "compensated suitably" and "increased the compensation offering enough". > Especially for old people, memories can be more of a comfort than cash, and losing your home inevitably means losing some of those memories. That seems rather condescending to old people to me.

imgabe 12y ago

Isn't it rather antisocial to pave over someone's home?

facepalm 12y ago
Not if you pay them accordingly. Moving is not that big a deal. I am talking about projects for public benefit. Some things have to be built somewhere, after all.
- toyg 12y ago
  "Not if you pay them accordingly." And so it came to be, that money was the measure of everything. I hate to border on strawman-building, but... what if I told you that you have to renounce your laptop, your telephone number, all your social media accounts, all your pictures, everything you've ever hold dear, right now, "for the good of the community"? Of course I'll pay you "accordingly" (up to a point, i.e. just enough to replace them). Would you take it? For a lot of old people, relinquishing their homes means losing memories and likely being uprooted from the community they belong to, which is what they really care about. They don't care too much about their bank accounts, because they are aware that their time is short and what really matters for them is the connections they can still make, the history they can pass on. That sort of thing doesn't have a price tag.
  - facepalm 12y ago
    Well helping people has a price tag. If they don't care for the money, they could still accept it and donate it to cancer research or food donations for starving children. It still seems selfish... In any case what is the point of the discussion if I say "if they pay accordingly" and you say "but they won't"? Money as a measure for everything - it is just a convenient proxy for talking about the value of things. What is so bad about that? Should these people be paid off in other things? Like what?
    - toyg 12y ago
      The point is that in some cases, there are things that cannot be "paid off", whatever the currency. Not everything can be bought and sold.

onion2k 12y ago

If you work in the construction industry I imagine this is the equivalent of an IE6 user.

hnal943 12y ago

This is why the concept of eminent domain exists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

GFischer 12y ago
Eminent domain is sadly abused in 99% of the cases. I'd rather it didn't exist, but I can see the need in the most extreme examples. See for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_for_Billionaires http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_for_Billionaires Edit: keeping on topic, there was a holdout when building a mall here in Uruguay, and they built the parking lot around his house: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Geant/@-34.8667764,-56.0236043,344m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x959f889d98fcf3cb:0xb5c6af19df94a75e https://www.google.com/maps/place/Geant/@-34.8667764,-56.023... there's a controversy in my country (Uruguay) because the state wants to apply Eminent Domain to a supposed landmark, because a study said 200 years ago it had been a campsite of the national hero: http://www.diarioelpueblo.com.uy/destacados/el-hervidero-una-estancia-ejemplar-en-la-mira-del-estado.html http://www.diarioelpueblo.com.uy/destacados/el-hervidero-una...