2 ms·

One problem there is that you lose all queue management and it seems they all do awful things. Many of them also randomly intercept and tamper with tcp connecti

by nullc 12y ago

One problem there is that you lose all queue management and it seems they all do awful things. Many of them also randomly intercept and tamper with tcp connections even while not natting.

mindslight 12y ago
Yes, it's less than ideal. But I don't think you're ever going to find a nice, proper, trustable device. Communications gear is basically just complex software (DSP and the like). The parts count will be minimized to keep costs down, so the necessarily-proprietary parts get mingled with the needlessly-proprietary ones. Redeveloping those blobs as free software is certainly possible, but it will always lag behind the proprietary version. IMHO, that effort is better spent on working around the brokenness of such devices - maintain your own txqueue at a slightly slower rate than the modem, etc. (My thinking on the "ideal cellphone" is the same - physically separate the baseband from the personal computer, with an IP-only interface (eg Wifi) between them.) FWIW, I haven't noticed any packet mangling from my ADSL2+ modem in bridge mode, but I haven't looked very hard either.
- walterbell 12y ago
  > physically separate the baseband from the personal computer, with an IP-only interface (eg Wifi) between them Are there any options on the market besides iPod Touch and Samsung Galaxy S WiFi?
  - mindslight 12y ago
    Eh? Any laptop or wifi-only tablet would do, so I don't see why you're implying there's a shortage? I've been meaning to enumerate the possibilities of things with long battery life that will ideally run normal GNU/Linux with a chorded keyboard for input. If that works out successfully, then a smart watch for notifications would be the logical next step.
    - walterbell 12y ago
      Since you mentioned "ideal cellphone", I was thinking of pocketable devices (< 5"), not many of those around which are baseband-free.
      - mindslight 12y ago
        Ah sorry, good point. I had other requirements in mind that made me think I would end up with a larger device (battery life, un-tablety to hopefully run GNU as a base), and forgot about those when writing my comment. Not that I really want something that won't fit in my pocket, so thanks for your suggestions of things to look into :> Although a device with a baseband (but antenna removed) could even be a decent starting point. Lacking a network channel, it would be basically equivalent security to a desktop CPU (that's an uncomfortable truth).
        walterbell 12y ago
        Thanks for pointer on antenna removal, will search for teardown examples of successful removal. Could be added to a future version of guides similar to https://blog.torproject.org/blog/mission-impossible-hardening-android-security-and-privacy https://blog.torproject.org/blog/mission-impossible-hardenin...
        mindslight 12y ago
        Well, I'll add a disclaimer that my comment was from a rough theoretical perspective. To successfully "remove the antenna", you're going to have to make sure communications don't continue to function on any remaining parasitic antenna - I wouldn't be surprised if removing just the obvious antenna still left you with a phone that worked in 80% of places. I don't know enough about cellphone chipsets to know if the mixer/external amp are integrated, or are still discrete things that can be removed. But you'd have to investigate these details on a specific model of phone and then measure the its actual emissions before you could have something even approaching a "guide".

by nullc 12y ago

One problem there is that you lose all queue management and it seems they all do awful things. Many of them also randomly intercept and tamper with tcp connections even while not natting.

mindslight 12y ago

Yes, it's less than ideal. But I don't think you're ever going to find a nice, proper, trustable device. Communications gear is basically just complex software (DSP and the like). The parts count will be minimized to keep costs down, so the necessarily-proprietary parts get mingled with the needlessly-proprietary ones. Redeveloping those blobs as free software is certainly possible, but it will always lag behind the proprietary version. IMHO, that effort is better spent on working around the brokenness of such devices - maintain your own txqueue at a slightly slower rate than the modem, etc. (My thinking on the "ideal cellphone" is the same - physically separate the baseband from the personal computer, with an IP-only interface (eg Wifi) between them.) FWIW, I haven't noticed any packet mangling from my ADSL2+ modem in bridge mode, but I haven't looked very hard either.

walterbell 12y ago
> physically separate the baseband from the personal computer, with an IP-only interface (eg Wifi) between them Are there any options on the market besides iPod Touch and Samsung Galaxy S WiFi?
- mindslight 12y ago
  Eh? Any laptop or wifi-only tablet would do, so I don't see why you're implying there's a shortage? I've been meaning to enumerate the possibilities of things with long battery life that will ideally run normal GNU/Linux with a chorded keyboard for input. If that works out successfully, then a smart watch for notifications would be the logical next step.
  - walterbell 12y ago
    Since you mentioned "ideal cellphone", I was thinking of pocketable devices (< 5"), not many of those around which are baseband-free.
    - mindslight 12y ago
      Ah sorry, good point. I had other requirements in mind that made me think I would end up with a larger device (battery life, un-tablety to hopefully run GNU as a base), and forgot about those when writing my comment. Not that I really want something that won't fit in my pocket, so thanks for your suggestions of things to look into :> Although a device with a baseband (but antenna removed) could even be a decent starting point. Lacking a network channel, it would be basically equivalent security to a desktop CPU (that's an uncomfortable truth).
      - walterbell 12y ago
        Thanks for pointer on antenna removal, will search for teardown examples of successful removal. Could be added to a future version of guides similar to https://blog.torproject.org/blog/mission-impossible-hardening-android-security-and-privacy https://blog.torproject.org/blog/mission-impossible-hardenin...
        mindslight 12y ago
        Well, I'll add a disclaimer that my comment was from a rough theoretical perspective. To successfully "remove the antenna", you're going to have to make sure communications don't continue to function on any remaining parasitic antenna - I wouldn't be surprised if removing just the obvious antenna still left you with a phone that worked in 80% of places. I don't know enough about cellphone chipsets to know if the mixer/external amp are integrated, or are still discrete things that can be removed. But you'd have to investigate these details on a specific model of phone and then measure the its actual emissions before you could have something even approaching a "guide".